The Ugly Bruce Fitzhugh Interview

How hard or easy was it to make a living in a band at the level that Living Sacrifice was at? Please explain, especially if there were particular areas of struggle...

It was actually not very easy at all.

We weren’t actually able to make any kind of living or be full time until after our fifth album, The Hammering Process . After we did that record we pretty much just jumped out there and eecided to do it, not quite sure if we’d be able to our not. At the level we were at, we sold a decent amount of records. The reborn record, which sold around 25,000, which is really good for an indie label, but not huge or great or anything like that. We’re not massive, That allows us to go around and tour the country and have at least a couple hundred people at your show, and maybe up t o500 in some markets.

When we went out there and decided to do it, we just did it. We supported ourselves in hopes that promoting The Hammering Process record would continue to grow and grow and grow and we’d sell more records and the shows would be bigger, we’d make more money and we could come home for longer periods of time. Because we were making more off the shows and weren’t having to constantly tour. As it was during that time period in making a living, basically we had to play, like, constantly. If we weren’t playing a show, we weren’t making money anywhere else. You don’t see money off of record sales at that level, because it’s still recouping. You might see some mechanical royalties, but they’re not...it’s not enough to quit a dayjob kind of thing. But they only come twice a year and it’s just kinda like a bonus, really. It’s not really worth... It’s not the kind of thing that you could stop what you’re doing and live off it awhile. So it was like this perpetual cycle of, ‘We have to tour to make the money.’ It’s just the huge trade-off. If you’re 19, 20, 21 with no wife or anything . . . nothing tying you down at home or anything like that. It’s fine. It’s no problem. You don’t even really need a place to live. You just keep all of your stuff at your parents’ house and just stay on the road. Some bands get pretty big. They can make decent money. They can even, at some point, just have a bunch of guys move into a place and keep an apartment or whatever for when they do come home, but they’re all splitting the rent, so it’s dirt cheap – nothing, and no other bills, so it works out. For us, by the time we got to our fifth album we’re all married and some of us had children and stuff like that, so it was a struggle. After a couple years of touring full-time, we just kinda started going into debt. But we actually had... We were set up pretty good. We had, like, health insurance and everything for our band and we paid for that for a year. But we figured out that we couldn’t afford to do it anymore, so we quit. As far as what all that had to do with why we broke up: For me, I just didn’t want to be... I didn’t want to live on the road away from my family anymore. After touring that much I realized that we actually weren’t getting any bigger tours or anything like that. The tours were pretty much staying the same. The markets were staying the same. We did sell more records because we toured more, but not significantly more – to where it really really made a difference as far as the shows becoming huge things where we could make a lot of money off of each show. That’s probably part of the reason we came off the road. Another reason we came off the road is because we were going into debt. In order to pay off the debt, we just had to come home and get jobs and then do weekend shows where we basically would go out and play and not pay ourselves anything – just put all that money that we made towards merchandise bills or whatever debt we had accrued – credit card debt and stuff like that from just being on the road – hotels, gas, stuff like that. We were able to do that within about a year, pretty much pay everything off. As far as the rest of it, I just didn’t really see... For me, my heart was in it less and less, because I just wanted to be with my family and it was too... For me it was too much time to put towards something that really wasn’t going to be able to provide. Also, I felt that my heart wasn’t in this much anymore, which was kind of like God showing me, ‘Hey. This isn’t where your heart is anymore. Your heart’s more with your family and looking for an outlet that’s going to provide for them and stuff like that.’

For a band at our level, it’s incredibly difficult. If you’re married and stuff like that, it’s pretty much not gonna work out. You can do band as a hobby, part-time, and stuff like that, but there’s still this huge division, because you have to have a day job and any kind of day job... Unless you’re self-employed and can make really good money doing your own thing, it’s going to be hard to juggle. You’re not gonna tell your boss, ‘Hey, I’m going on tour for two months and I’ll be back and get my job back.’ You’re relegated to, like, construction and restaurants. And I did both. When I was home, I painted houses during the day and I waited tables at night. Not every night, but a lot of nights. That’s how I supported my family when I wasn’t on tour. That’s a hard way to live, at a certain point. If you consider those being two jobs, the band was another job, because I handled all the business and the management aspects of it.

God’s blessed me. I wouldn’t trade any of it. I had fun. For me, with the things I learned and the things that I was allowed to participate in, just led me up to being able to do what I’m doing now, which is helping younger bands and smaller bands actually make money. Even if they’re not on the road, just to get set up through online merchandising sales. And through just managing them and doing more career management type stuff. Helping them avoid some of the pitfalls that we walked into, and stuff like that.

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I am totally with Bruce! I was crying that Living Sacrifce was breaking up. And Look P.O.D. are like millionares! And LS are not millionares, they didd not tour as much when Conceived was released. I think we have to pray harder and have faith if we need to make a step further. I was also very upset that LS did not win a dove award in 2003, and yes they were nominated! Pillar won for the second time. I thought it could win because it was their Heaviest record (to me it was). I think Bruce is also right that these bands are getting crappy record contracts. Where would P.O.D. be if they were not with Atlantic? Continue with there Rescue Record stuff and continue the more Christian content. Christian kids should think about that. It is sad that the heaviest band around had to break if it was because financial problems and the label(s) wouldn't offer anything great or better so that can continue with more touring having someone drive for them not the band members driving themselves. Why can't the bigger bands like POD, Amy Grant, Blindside, U2, Sixpence, and all the Big bands associated with the Christian community donate to these bands so that they can reach for kids that need Christ? It's a shame nobody will do nothing for there own brothers and sisters. It's said in the 10 Commandments that you shall not forsake and it should also mean not forsake your fellow band friends too! So start start a protest to those who are big. Also finally, if your not a Christian band why should your cd's be sold in Christian bookstores like POD and Project 86? They say they are not a Christian band. These Christian Bookstores don't know what their thinking when they put them on their shelves, do they? I like POD alot because they talk about their beliefs in God and all. Money has to go to the rightfull owners. The ones who make the music. In God We Trust. Thats all I have to say at this moment.
Posted by: Joel P on October 30, 2003 11:47 PM

Again, Christian labels should give in so that their artists can be successful and the kids can reach Christ even better. Most of those labels don't even show a revelence in Christian Music, just the bands do. Don't argue with me that cause that is straight out the truth. You would have no right labeling me an ignorant Christian because I'm behind Living Sacrifice 100%. They got me to reach Jesus more than ever! More than POD and Project 86. Most profit again should and better go the artists directly, not labels, distribution etc. Basically it's the fans pitching in. I pitched in 100% Buying all there cd's and t-shirts. Or maybe music should go away and we won't have to deal with this ignorance. So for those who read my comments, pray for these labels and bands so that they deserve much better and accomplish a goal that God gave them. Living Sacrifice did not fail that Goal! They have reached it but what can we do when the money is in the wrong hands?
Posted by: Joel P on October 31, 2003 12:12 AM

I am a big fan of LS. It was sad to see them go, but being in a band I understand completely where Bruce is coming from. I have discovered many things that bother me about the music industry lately, and the worst thing is, like Bruce said, Christian labels are offering some of the worst deals in the business. It's sad that Christian labels can't live up to their name. How Christ-like is it when "Christians" are swindling each other, simply because they want to make a few more bucks. "What good is it to gain the whole world, yet forfeit your soul?" I'd love to start seeing some integrity in the music business, and it only makes perfect sense that it should start with Christians.
Posted by: Keith B on October 31, 2003 02:39 PM

ok Hatebreed isn't the only band making a decent living these days you got Lamb Of God Shadows Fall Killswitch Engage Norma Jean and Underoath are all getting more exposure now and you can belive more will fallow like As I Lay Dying God Forbid and Unearth I saw Everytime I Die and The Agony Scene's new Video on MTV's Extreme Rock I'm sorry Living Sacrifice broke up at the worst time and that's sad I bet if Living Sacrifice were to realease a CD tomorrow and shot a Video it wouldn't have a problem getting played on MTV 2 or TVU for that matter and there are good Christian labels like Facedown Records they don't take advantage of their bands and I think Figure Four was crazy to leave them for Solid State
Posted by: Dustin on November 1, 2003 04:37 AM

I think that it is absolute crap that a great band like Living Sacrifice has to break up over finances. If what he's saying about the financial side of Christian music is true, no wonder so many bands are going to the general market. I have just started a band and although we weren't going to play for a living, I am definitely more concerned now than before. Back to LS, I am truly saddened by their decision to call it quits. I have seen many hardcore and metal bands play, but I can definitely say seeing LS was an experience like no other. God Bless them in whatever else they do. They will be missed.
Posted by: Karl D on November 1, 2003 01:16 PM

Anyone doing music thinking that they're going to get rich and be in regular rotation on MTV should be signed to large corporate owned record labels like P.O.D. and some others have done. It's a business choice to leave the underground and go after the masses who shop at major retail outlets. Face it, if you're into music because you want to have fun don't hold financial expectations high. If you have a family and need to work a normal 9 to 5 job and maybe play some gigs in your state for fun, so be it. That's what the underground music scene is really like. I'm sadded that LS has called it quits, but they're not a band who were going to water down their stand and so they paid a price financially. I'd like to see them continue as a studio band and play occassional festivals if they felt called to do so. I think it's reasonable to do that and hold a regular working man's job to put bread and butter on your family table. Don't give up the dream!
Posted by: Matt on November 7, 2003 08:30 PM

Our treasures are not down on this earth, thank goodness, but in Heaven with our Father. You guys freiken rock! Living Sacrifice thank you for being so awesome, and always uplifting me in my walk with Christ through these years. He will bless!!!
Posted by: Jason Humphries on November 11, 2003 08:37 PM

this was a fantastic article! it's a sad, but true, reality. if you're in denial over the sobering financial truth about the Christian music industry, you've obviously never tried to make it in a band. everything about this interview was well stated. well done.
Posted by: jon on November 12, 2003 11:22 PM

I think Fitzhugh handled himself well, at least as a man who's been in the trenches. It would appear that he has had the time and intelligence to think through some of the issues of Christians in the music industry and Christians engaging broader culture as a whole. But then, what else is there to do when you're in a van touring cross country? I got into Tooth and Nail when I was in high school (1995) and tend to support indie bands. I have long been a fan of Living Sacrifice (nothing touches Reborn). It is sad to see them go. However, he is right that some bands should go and they're still around (I think they're called Petra). Perhaps this was the right time for them to leave. "Old bands don't die, they just fade away . . ." Nonetheless, my impression has always been that indie bands, because they are more stripped down, can exude more "pure" passion and talent than hyped up bands/acts. I suppose I thought that indie labels, as a business, would be more "pure" than large labels. Perhaps this is not true. But should we be suprised that Christian labels, at times, are no better than secular labels? Should that surprise anyone? Money and power have always led men astray from the Truth--it would appear that this is no different. I wonder if he speaks from experience, i.e. his dealings with Tooth and Nail/Solid State, or from relationships with other bands. Oh well, at least we still have Takehold Records. Oh wait, they sold out to Solid State. Mr. Fitzhugh--thank you for your dedication to music and the Message.
Posted by: Jon B on November 17, 2003 11:49 AM

I really started listening Living Sacrifice early this year and I am sad about there departure. I have to agree with Bruce about bands sticking around for too long. Take Petra for example, they have been around for 30 years, even they i kinda like some of there stuff, i wouldn't be too mad about there departure.
Posted by: Ryan B on November 17, 2003 12:37 PM

This article, when all is said and done, isn't about Bruce Fitzhugh and Living Sacrifice. It's about Christians, who have been called to live a life unlike the world, not caring about that call and chasing the almighty dollar. It's like Creed's song "In America" (yes, I know they're not a Christian band) - "Only in America we stamp our god, in god we trust." To me, it doesn't matter which side you're on here - the label reps ripping off the bands to line their pockets or the musician who just wants "a fair shake" - everyone involved is trying to get paid. One thing we can all agree on is the fact that music costs more in Christian bookstores than it does at WalMart or Target. Who's really getting ripped here? The record label, the artist who gets such a tiny scrape off the crust or the fans who pay more than double what it costs to create an album and then discover (that except in the rare case of a truly landmark album) that it wasn't worth the money we paid for it in the first place? I don't agree with their more recent statements and empty rhetoric but I suggest to all the "Christian" artists out there who don't want to get taken to the cleaners by a label, do like Project 86 is doing with their next album. Produce it yourself, promote it yourself through a website and live appearances, even buy ads for it maybe and keep it away from any and all record labels. Whatever happened to "if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself?" God bless.
Posted by: Andrew B. on November 20, 2003 03:04 AM

I too am saddened by the loss of living sacrifice but under the circumstances I understand. I know as a musician and a husband and a father that the full time music gig just don't pay da bills and the way things are right now.... y'all know. well anyway I think one of the reasons for LS to break-up was Mr. Rocky Gray spending more time with that Evenescence band then his own .... too many irons on the fire and a grammy nomination will do that to you I guess... LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN METAL !!!!!!!
Posted by: jayme c. on December 1, 2003 10:33 PM

Bruce always gives great interviews...and this one is no exception. But i'm wondering why there is so much outlash at bands like POD, Blindside, P86? Why is it that because these bands are being sold in both markets are they continually beatdown from both sides? POD's new album Payable on Death is only being sold in 15% of christian bookstores nationwide that means that a whopping 85% aren't selling it..and it wasn't Atlantic's decition it was the stores who did this. Of course this is nothing new for POD...back when F.E.O.S came out they did the same thing...then the album started selling hot in the "mainsteam market" and the christian bookstores begged Atlantic to beable to sell the album again...My question is why? How was the album different from when they said "we don't want to sell this"...to when they were begging to sell the album? Had the lyrics magically changed overnight?
Posted by: Dave R. on December 7, 2003 10:34 PM

if you look at Christian bookstores, even the price of a cd is about five dollars higher than say walmart, hot topic, etc. Chrstian bookstores are out to take advantage of Christians. especially the loyal religous Christians who believe that their supporting something that is not real. i honestly dont know anyone who goes to a Christian outlet to get cds. their is not enough competition for them to lower there prices, but if they did, people would by more, maybe even two copies of a cd. one to give away to someone who would be ministered to. were is the ministry mind set in the Christian business world. how many lives have not been touched because of mans greed for contol and lust of money . there are bands coming whom God will use to stop these kind of things, either we are for God, or we are against Him. there is know in between.
Posted by: m.r. on December 15, 2003 12:27 AM

I remember I used to spend hours at my local Christian bookstore listening to 'demo' CDs. Listen to the first 20 seconds...next track...20 seconds...next track...put in Reborn...first 59 seconds...then WHAM! Like a spiritual shockwave. Bought it, loved it, still love it. I understand Bruce's point about seudo-Christian music in the Christian bookstore. I was frequently dissapointed in the overall wishy-washy lyrics of many bands I had to choose from. It seemed like every month the T&N label had a new band in the lineup but few that challenged me or lifted me up. Maybe a love song, a break-up song, and a 'puberty sucks' song but that was about it. As a customer at a Christian bookstore I'm looking for a specific product: good music, good lyrics, and something to make me think. Living Sacrifice is a blessing in my life because they do all three.
Posted by: Peter on December 16, 2003 07:14 AM

living sacrifice was gay.
Posted by: fortune cookie. on December 17, 2003 06:31 PM

Congrats to Living Sacrifice for sticking it out this long, and for making three final albums of quality metal back to back. Great songs, great productions, and artistic and pro-packaging. It is a shame they never broke into the real metal scene on the last couple records. There is no way it would have made sense to carry the torch on anymore if the music wasn't penetrating the secular scene. They should have been out on tour with bands like Machine Head, Prong, Voivod, Napalm Death, Biohazard, etc and it never happened. Let me tell you the other reasons why , that were not mentioned in this article. 1. Extreme death metal is very difficult to market to the mainstream without a financially strong and wise management and promotion teams 2. Lack of media support or plugs. Why was Living Sacrifice not having articles in Revolver, Metal Hammer, Kerrang, etc. How are the average metal fans supposed to hear about them or have interest generated to pick up the album without a media promotion or buzz of some type 3. The whole concept of relying on selling death metal in Christian bookstores is ridiculous. Maybe it worked in 1986, but in 2003? How many hard edged people, people not really into religion want to buy their metal by walking into a store jammed with ornaments and Christian literature and Church ladies? Even if the cds were 5 dollars each, it isn't going to happen. The Christian labels and bands should have come up with new stategies years ago to market their music in other outlets, or better market it into regular retail stores. It really annoys me how clueless a good chunk of the Christian industry is and has been. It is not the bands' fault. Time for a new way of doing things. Revolution calling?
Posted by: Rich M on December 18, 2003 01:37 AM

L.s. is and was my favorite band. Probably one of the biggest reasons i loved that band(besides the fact im a drumer and think Lance kicks butt-ox)was that Bruce had a voice no one else can copy. All these "scream" bands all sound the same. Bruce was between the death growls like Steve Rowe and the agrresive vocals like project 86. I wish L.S. could just pump out cds and not have to tour. I saw them once and have the solidstate dvd and they are awesome! I hope in the future that the christian music business gets its head out of it's b**t and really tries to get the music more mainstream. Thats all i got to say about that!! ANiMaL
Posted by: AniMaL on December 18, 2003 06:47 PM

you Know many things wernt said in this interview, about Solid State not ever giving money so that LS could play at OZZFEST (2 yrs in a row). that would have helped both LS and Solid state. alot of ppl think christian lables are the best for christian bands... but i dont think so. Like for example Bec records gave P86 a crappy and rigged contract saying they basicly had to sell a million records to get money. so thats why they went to atlanta. and they left atlenta for a few reasons also. and ZAO, they were promised a video on their contract , and since 1998 were begging for it, and Solid State never gave them one. So not only do they give bad contracts tehy dont honor them. it was estimated that through zao shirts adn cds alone tooth and anil made a profit near 2 million dollors, the band saw less than $10,000. and if you fallow Zao they had like 6 cds on T&N.. and now a BEST OF ZAO (ledgondary) was made adn will have many sails adn ZAO wont get a penny for it. Thats why zao left. other bands that are softer are upset about them alos like for example Plankeye. Tooth and anil has given its self a bad anme latly and i hope they patch things up. please pray for the bands and the lables. p.s. LS ROCKS!!!
Posted by: Mike (angel_without_wings) on January 10, 2004 07:24 PM

I'm a huge Living Sacrifice fan, and I'll miss them terribly . . . but I can understand why they quit. Working as hard as they did and getting gyped by the labels would suck, and frankly, I'm surprised they put it up with it as long as they did. (That and perpetually being on the road. I couldn't take being away from family that long.) Think about Project 86; I love them, but they couldn't stand it either. It's awful. Anyway, Bruce really summed up what needs to be said about the Christian industry--or the industry in general. I think it's disgusting that bands as kick-butt as LS get robbed. Heck, I don't like it that crappy artists get robbed. Something needs to change, and soon. If this industry expects to be truly successful, not just financially but spiritually, then they better get something going. Time is of the essence. Mass props to LS.
Posted by: Jessica (Wildcatblue7) on January 26, 2004 08:59 PM

I totally understand where bruce is coming from. LS is my Favorate band and has been a major blessing and encouragement in my life.It's just sad that it had to end this way because of Labels not providing their artist with better deals. I would probably do the same if every time i invested my time and talent i end up in debt. Though LS is no more, i can see that God used this experience to encourage Bruce to Help out Other bands who are in the same shoes. So many Bands have been calling it quits lately(i wonder why?). bands like Zao,Societys finest, Bleach,Few Left Standing,etc. I just hope these Labels undertsand that what they are doing is wrong and that they should come up with better ways to benefit themselves and these artist. Hopefully this change will happen soon, Before more great bands are no more.
Posted by: Jose R. on February 15, 2004 09:07 PM

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