Roger Martinez: Where Is He Now?

Our "Where Are They Now?" series has received a popular response, and we don't know a band who has received more inquiries than Vengeance Rising. As with any band, there are really five stories to tell, but we will focus on the frontman who took the band over in 1991, after the other four guys left to form Die Happy. That frontman is Roger Martinez.

A few readers have received letters from Roger over the years, one in particular that we call the "f-word letter," due to its repeated profanity, in which he bemoaned the fact that he was "treated wrong" by his record company and other Christians he knew. While many thought his complaints to be compelling and crying for a story, we have declined all these years for two major reasons: One, we didn't want to give a pulpit to a madman (as Roger was basically raving mad, with an emphasis on the raving part!); and Two, we felt like the facts we had gathered showed Roger to be a very bad guy, and we thought there would be no benefit to uncover him publically. With that in mind, some may wonder, "Why do a story now?"

The impetus for this story can be credited to Ted Kirkpatrick of Tourniquet. Like many that Roger knew, Ted received a phone call a year or two ago, begging for money. Thinking to himself, "I'll probably never see this money again, but at least Roger will know that someone is willing to help," he lent Roger $150.00. Well, out of the blue last Summer, Ted received another phone call from a very calm and lucid individual -- Roger Martinez, who offered to meet Ted for lunch and pay him back the money he borrowed.

Since he no longer seemed to be raving, but was very cordial, lucid and calm, we thought we would do an interview with Roger and get his perspective on where he is now with his spiritual beliefs. We knew it would be kind of a "This is what an atheist believes" type article, and we thought it would explain what made this prolific preacher of the Gospel a crusader for non-belief, as well as offer insight into an atheist's mind (kind of like the way our "So & So Sez" stories sometimes turn out). The following was written with no small amount of prayer, and in humility...

"Basically, I came to atheism," explains Roger, "and it happened over a series of years. As you guys knew me, I was doing what you guys are now doing, which is propagating a belief system. And at the time, of course, we all claimed that it was on fact. One of the places that I was baptized at was at the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel in Los Angeles. It was the world headquarters for the modern Pentecostal movement. I was living with the secretary of the heir to the movement. During that time, even when I was with Sanctuary, I did a four-part series on the healing issue. As I was personally investigating it, what I continually and simply found out was that it is all fraud.

"I was personally indoctrinated, like most Americans were, into believing that this God existed, because in 1955 somebody had the brilliant idea of putting "In God We Trust" on the money, so that by the time I was born in 1962 the country was in a religious frenzy. I was into indoctrination centers, and basically did the whole Pledge of Allegiance, 'one nation under God,' and of course, our perspective is that not only is there no god, but that's a very unhealthy psychiatric thing to impose upon children.

"So, the point being, when I began looking into what was happening with the healings, there are no people who were crippled who are walking. There are no people who were blind who see. There are no people who were deaf who hear, no people with dismembered limbs who have been healed -- although these claims are being made that AIDS has been healed and cancer's been healed and all of these other types of things. The bottom line is that it's fraud, and what's happening right now, atheism as a whole is beginning to coordinate worldwide in socially valuable manners, and express a positive atheism that can educate people.

"Here I was slandering people, basically because on several occasions, I was in a very bigoted and biased social environment, like 'Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers.' And these types of things aren't healthy for a society. So, when I came to my atheism, which again, was through a number of things, the main thing was healing. What it really boils down to for me, is that we, as human beings, have to live in this world together. My goal, at least, I believed at the time I was doing the whole Christian thing, was that it was for the best of mankind. And having come to my point of faith right now, I'd say it's even far superior for mankind, because it's based first on reality, and second, that it deals with a world view that can encompass the entire world's population in a cognitive and very cohesive manner that can address the issues, such as the Oklahoma City bombing. That was a Jesus bombing. The guy is a religionist, and that's gonna be brought out. It was that City of Zion that they belong to. It was a Christian thing just like the Ku Klux Klan, when they hung black people, the whole thing with the slaves, 'Love your master, obey your master,' you know. And these things are basically social engineering tools that unfortunately, even today, are still being used to jack with people."

(Ed: Attempts to argue with some of these points via email have not been responded to. Points like the unfairness of comparing pure Christianity with polluted and unbiblical doctrines of groups like the KKK; and the intrinsic racism in evolution, which is an atheist's only explanation for man's origin.)

One of the rumors we had heard about Roger was that he was never a Christian at all, who, as a Sanctuary pastor and Christian band spokesperson, was "only putting on a show for money." There is also the theological argument about "true, saving faith" versus "professing faith." When asked about the sincerity of his belief at that time, he responded with the explanation of: "I would say I was definitely what we would call schizophrenic. I did believe that there was a god who existed. I did believe that we were able to communicate with this god by means of the written word, and there were obviously claims of people who claim to have heard. So, I was indeed genuinely as schizophrenic -- and this is point blank -- as you are. And it's not a derogatory manner. It's just a simple psychiatric evaluation. I believed in something that definitely was not real, although I believed it to be real.

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I am surprised, shocked and saddened. I totally agree with HM's perspective. We must pray for Roger. Thanks for sharing this interview. Blessings,
Posted by: Arthur Epp on July 24, 2003 12:00 PM

Well what can i say about the hole thing about Roger. I'm not going to point the figer at him like so many have doen or are doing to this day i'm not even on anyones side about this. but I really do care for him and i'm going to pray for him everyday and i'm going to call him by in to Gods famliy again. By faith I will know that he will get saved agin. I feel that he really deep down inside he is really hurt by a lot of people. I can understand that we all can. You see i'm called to win the lost (the youth) I know theres a lot bad stuff going on in christian music that should not be there. But I can tell you that i have a long way to go befor i can every try to get someone like roger to jesus. Now that i think about maybe i will try to get him back to Jesus. when i'm were god wants me to be. But for now i will pray for him like most of us will do. If anyone out there that knows roger let me in on anything you can about him abd the band anything i really want to help him out. But I need to get to where God wants me to be and i will tell you what God whants me to do for the youth. thanks a lot God Bless you all even to roger. P.S. GOGER IF READ THIS MAN JESUS LOVES YOU SO MUCH. Even if people you knew didn't love you. He still loves you and even you don't know me i care about you to and i wouuld never do any thing to you like what other people did to you. I would just help you out the best i could. Also Roger it's almost time for jesus to come back. Why do you come back to.
Posted by: steve savage on August 13, 2003 11:41 PM

I never knew a guy could go from one thing to the complete opposite. i find it awkward and sad, i dont know why, its too bad
Posted by: Bayhawks83 on September 11, 2003 04:26 PM

I would just like to say a few things about this issue. I was a young man addicted to hardcore drugs at the time. I had people in my life that was trying to tell me about being a christian but I saw it as being weak and would not really listen. I went to see a rock band one night called Vegence Rising. I was completly blown away! I had never seen dudes play so hard, so long, and so very good. I enjoyed the rock show and will never forget how it changed my life, but it was really what happend before and after the show that marked me the most. While waiting for the show to start I noticed this dude covered with tattoos of angels and jesus all over his body walking around talking to people in the crowd. This dude was Larry Farkas. I walked up and beagn to listen to what he was saying. Larry was treating the kids at this show with the upmost respect. He was sharing his faith, answering questions, and just being a very real person. There was something powerful about him and it got my attention. I wanted to be strong and powerful in my life to so I could defeat the drug abuse that was killing me. All through the show they witnessed and shared thier testimonies. Right after the show they gave an invitation to come forward and said that they would pray with whoever came forward. They stepped right off the stage and ministered to the people. It impressed me to no end. I don't know if they really belived what they were saying or not, but only GOD can truly see into the hearts of men. I can say the meesage that I received that night was my need for Jesus Christ, salvation, and living in freedom from sin. That night truly changed my life. I wish I could give back to Roger Martinez the free gift of salvation he gave to me. In the mean time I shall pray for his soul. JESUS IS GOD!!!!!!!
Posted by: James Absher on September 17, 2003 09:54 AM

I was a christian when I first read this article several years ago, believing what I was told by pastors and what I read in the bible. I was horribly shocked at the time by Rogers attitude. Now the only thing I would disagree with is atheism. But having finally studying the bible objectively, I have begun to see some of what he and many others over many centuries have been saying.....the bible has major credibily problems. The authors of the gospels(not the disiples by the way) couldn't even get the resurrection story straight(Jesus would raise after 3 days but was only in the ground from Friday eve. to Sun morning!) Not to mention the striking parellels between christianity and greek mystery religions and zoroastrianism, both that predate it. Jesus predicted or was said to have predicted his return within the lifetime of his disiples(see matthew and mark). I hate to say it, but he's about 1900 years too late! And I am not even going to mention the contridictions in pauls epistles or the absurdities of revelation(written by a crazed exile who wanted to see rome fall). And scaring people away from something Roger would write is riduculus. If he is so wrong then christians should have no problem with his arguments. Bottom line....believe what you have faith in. But don't cut someone down who has most likely done more research than you have. I believe in a creator. Powerfull? yes. Loving? It depends on your perspective. Comfortable living in the U. S., or being a child thats starved and beaten in a third world country might change your outlook a bit. Let Roger be. You can't change peoples minds anyway.
Posted by: Jay Mac on September 22, 2003 04:25 AM

Dear Jay Mac, "I hate to say it, but he's about 1900 years to late!" Have you ever heard of preterism? It seems like you read the Bible from your Western perspective. Most of the things you put in your comment has already been debunked. Check out the sites "Bede's Library," "tektonics.org", or "A Christian Think Tank," to see. I don't know if Roger has done more research than the people who wrote this, but you shouldn't presume that. I didn't believe in a while, but I do now. I liked looking up things about Gnosticism, and felt more released. It was an emotional thing. That is all I have to say.
Posted by: Christy on October 11, 2003 06:40 PM

When I first found out that Roger went apostate from the faith, I was saddenned and shocked. I checked out his site, and was caught off guard by the sexual pornography pictures all over it and on the new album cover, but even more shocked by the blatant song titles, he's actually trying to commit the unpardonable sin w/the song "Blaspheme the Holy Spirit". I have prayed for Roger; but frankly, I'd love even more to discuss these issues w/him, as I once came close to apostasy myself a couple years back. As I would agree w/him on many issues, such as the Bible infallibility thing, I am still a follower of Christ-but am completely convinced that the various scrolls that make up the modern Bible are not 100% infallibly Gods word{as I'm sure Roger had problem with} but unlike Roger, despite the adamancy of the mainstream christian right fundamentalist church's insistence that this doctrine of bible infallibillity is a "fundamental" like the ressurestion or something, I still believe that men{though they were quite chauvenistic is many of their own perosonal writings apart from the words which God dictated to them, not to mention they sayed their opinions-ie:Paul "[I] do not permit women...."etc,} I still believe that some stuff that which was said directly by the Lord is God speaking-and that often some things he said{many actually} were probably not moral absolutes for all people for all time{but rather culturally relevant commands for the good of the Israelites/jews of the day}, I am also pretty convinced that God is genderless{if God is spirit-than God has no body-God has no genitals,etc, nor the Holy Spirit, Only Jesus}, i also think that if someone does'nt believe in the trinity that this does not qualify them as apostate or unsaved{I do believe in the trinity} but those whom don't are to be judged purely by their fruits and whether they claim Jesus is Gods son and their Lord/saviour, nowehere is it written that one MUST believe that Jesus is Gods incarnate to be saved, only that they confess that he is Gods son and came in and died/ressurectted in the Flesh. I believe becuase of the many hints at it, but Jesus never said he was outright, but he hinted and prophecy hints at it, and it makes good logical sense to me to believe so. But, you know Roger probably had problems w/Fundamentalist mainsteam "Churchianity" or "Biblianity"-for some of these same reason{as well as others, also probbaly because he was judged to much by self-righteous hypocrites}, had he been shown the truth that one does not need to go along w/all these man-made doctrines to be saved-maybe he would've held onto his faith, whcih Is why I'd love to have an intelligent and open-minded debate w/the man about God and Jesus and the Bible and the Faith, no doubt he's more well-read than I, But-I am an outside the box follower of Jesus of Nazareth-the Christ, and I have the Spirit of God in my spirit to help me show by love and fruits mixed w/good open-minded discussion as apposed to "I have all the truth about God" 'IANITY', Maybe he would have seeds of truth and faith sown or re-watered in him. Anywho, I pray that God draws Roger back, in the meanwhile, don't advise people to avoid Rogers newer stuff-just because it's secular, you guys would likely recommend lots of secular stuff-but just because this is a former christian, I mean maybe we should check it out-to understand where Roger is coming from, to better appreciate the pain in his heart, to show him that we and our God still care. Peace In Christ Lucificide "the christian right is neither"!
Posted by: Lucificide on October 14, 2003 01:40 PM

The only thing we can do for Roger Martinez is to continue praying for him that he gets back on track with God. I truly believe that Jesus will continue to work on Him each & every day. You know, what if some day Roger comes out crying, "Oh, Lord, what have I done? I've turned my back on you. Please forgive me for my sins, change me & cleanse me with your holiness" & what if he came up to a friend in Christ he once knew & cried on his shoulders & said, "I'm so sorry I betrayed you & please forgive me... I want to change" Would we as Christians, especially us who knew Roger personally, would we think, "ah, he's not for real. Don't believe him. He just wants money or something" or would we be as Christians should be & pray with him & not to start slandering him, but rather show him a true friendship & to help him get right with Christ? We need to think about these things. If Roger came up to me & said calmly & sincerely, "Dude, can we pray together. I seriously need to change my ways & get right with the Lord," I would have a smile on my face, & say, "Roger, I'd be more than happy to." We are not to judge. God is the judge of all & we are his jury. So, come on people, pray for Roger every day. That's all we can do.
Posted by: Tim G. Beckmann on November 8, 2003 12:18 AM

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