Zao
Okay, this here is like "Chapter Three" of a Zao trilogy published in part in both HM Magazine and Heaven's Metal Fanzine. All three parts are separate and unique to each other, so this is truly a companion piece to the whole. It's different, but not every interview I do lasts two hours, either. Enjoy!
Item 1: Press Release
For Immediate Release
March 31
ZAO LEAVES FERRET TOUR
Injury Forces Lead Singer To Fly Home; Rest Of Bands Will Continue As Scheduled
Zao have been forced to drop off of the remaining dates on the Ferret Music "Under The Gun Tour" due to an injury sustained by frontman Daniel Weyandt. Co-Headliners Madball and Remembering Never along with support acts The Banner and Scarlet will continue the tour as scheduled.
Weyandt broke four bones in his left-hand in a back-stage mishap that also also involved a large cut that exposed one bone for over 12 hours and became infected. Had he gone to the hospital any later than he did he could have lost his hand entirely. Three different doctors ordered the singer, who strongly wished to complete the tour, to return home immediately and visit a specialist.
As an accomplished tattoo artist, Weyandt's injury poses a unique problem. Fortunately by following doctor's orders he is expected to make a full recovery.
"We can't apologize more strongly to the other bands and especially our fans who were planning on seeing us on the remaining dates," said guitarist Scott Mellinger, who has stood with Dan in Zao nearly a decade. "We want nothing more than for Dan to get better and we fully intend to crush once again with Dan on the Demon Hunter tour this summer."
Zao is set to release their new album The Fear Is What Keeps Us Here on June 13. Recorded by Steve Albini (Nirvana, The Pixies, Neurosis, High On Fire), the album is fast, edgy, raw, abrupt and highly-energized, recalling the rock n' roll angst of Self-Titled with the atmosphere of Liberate.
The band will embark on a nationwide tour with Demon Hunter, Spoken, August Burns Red and Becoming The Archetype the day after the album's release, to be preceded by a handful of headlining shows.
Item 2: Question About Russ Cogdell
Q: What happened to Russ?
A: He went on a medical leave due to his knee being injured in August 2005. In the interim, he got married and is working at home and spending time with his wife. Rock 'n Roll doesn't wait and Zao soldiered on. At this stage, we don't expect his return or want a replacement. If/when he decides to return, we have his area of the stage (in addition to a bunch of cushy gym mats) waiting for him.
Item 3: Various Interview Questions
Well, looking back over your history with Zao, what are one or two factors, highlights, or perhaps even negative things that have never really been brought up in the press or things that you would like to highlight now?
It kind of touches on it in the DVD a little bit, but there’s so much, like, chaos in breaking up and the times that I quit and didn’t tour. I always… I never didn’t love being in this band. I think it’s a facet of my personality. It helps me to deal with a lot of the frustrations I have in life. I think sometimes that’s what gets missed, in bands people are still doing things -- and somewhat I think will come across better -- are bands that are doing some of the things in the band for themselves. Not necessarily getting together and saying, "We’re going to write a record that’s just going to sell a lot of records." Or, "People like songs about this, so I’ll write a song about this." This band has always been as much of important of an outlet for us as it’s been for everyone else. People think, even from the DVD I talked to a few people who were like, when I quit and when I wasn’t in the band and the band broke up and because the band broke up and started again, it was always people in this band have a sincere devotion or attachment to the band -- especially myself and Scott. We’ve been doing it for so long, and actually anyone that’s ever been in an band, cause it’s like touring all the time and doing a lot of touring, you’re not necessarily having a lot to show for it. But this band has never started up…even though sometimes money was a factor, I guess it’s like hard to understand for some younger kids sometimes until you get older and are sitting around and thinking about how you can’t pay your rent or something. It’s something you don’t necessarily think about until certain stages of your life, but it’s always been important to each person that’s part of it. Even though people have quit and broken up, and things like that, I don’t think it diminishes the character of the band in a sense. We just never wanted to be generic or anything. We always wanted to be like sincere and different. I just know that some people I’ve talked to down the road, we did the farewell tour a couple years ago. And people don’t take it seriously. They think we just got back together to do records and make money or whatever, which is not necessarily the case. But if we were coming back to do it to make money and get big, we definitely would sound different. So, if anything, it’s just there’s a lot of chaos behind the band. The people that are still involved are pretty sincere. I still think it’s about each one of us having an outlet. I definitely think we’re in it -- especially with the lineup that’s here now. Everyone’s in it for the right reasons. I don’t know. It’s hard to explain. I guess the whole thing was like…when I quit the band and things like that, it was never because I had lost faith in it or I didn’t want to do it anymore or I was tired of it or tired of anything involved with it. It was just, unfortunately, like life mess and things like that. I don’t know if that’s what you were looking for.
Whatever you wanted to bring up. So, how do you feel or how did you feel with the finished product of the Zao DVD?
I was happy with it. I think the one thing that everyone brings up is on the second disc, of the concerts, the second concert some of the audio is kinda crappy. But that’s one of those things where, in the end, we didn’t really have anything that we could go back and take that would be much better. But overall, I think it came out good. It’s a little long. I think it turned out like somewhat of a fan of the band will be interested in what happened, it might be a little dull. I don’t think it’s like an action-packed DVD, like whatever. Depending on the personality type. I think it’s good. I think our goal with it was to, kind of like, once again, people will think, ‘Why did you guys break up all the time?’ And ‘Why did this person quit? Why did that person quit? What’s the message of the band?’ We just did our best to try to clear up all the chaos and confusion behind everything, you know? I think there was a good eight hours of stuff caught. Technically, it could have been… There’s still things that aren’t covered, but I guess it’s starting to get a point to where if we make it too much longer, I won’t even want to watch it. It’s pretty long. It’s longer than Lord of the Rings or something, you know? But I was real happy with it. Our manager, Ryan, it was kind of his vision. He’s kind of the one that was in charge of it. He’s been a friend of ours since day one. I just think it’s really cool that he wanted to do something like that. Like I said, if you’re a fan of the band or were a fan of the band at one time or a new fan and because The Funeral of God was on a different label -- it was on Ferret -- and some different… There was a lot of the old fans that picked it up. There was a lot of new people, too. There’s a group of people that thought that was our first record ever. They’d never heard of us before and they’re like, "What were you guys doing before this?" We’ve only been doing this for, like, forever. I think that if someone were a newer fan and pick it up they might be kinda turned on to some of the older stuff. I think it kind of makes sense of a lot of things. It could always make more sense, but it was getting so long that we tried to stick to some of the key stuff, ya know? It’s not a perfect representation. I think that’s hard to get, but I think it’s a pretty accurate representation of what happened over the years -- what got us to where we’re at.
I think it was a very cool thing…
Ryan’s a really cool guy. I was happy that he did it. He kinda did it for us and the fans and stuff. It was weird to make it. It was weird to answer questions for three hours.
Item 4: Comments about The Fear Is What Keeps Us Here album and recording with Steve Albini...
Wow.
It was definitely a different experience. It was comfortable. It was fast, but not in a rushed way. It went very smooth. It was just something we’re not used to, ya know? Going in with a plan and knocking it out really fast. Music-wise, Scott, Jeff and Marty are really good musicians and they just did a good job of playing it right the first or second time. We were looking more for, like, energy and emotion in the songs, as opposed to them being, like, completely perfect. It was really cool to watch it go so smoothly. I think it’s another reason it makes us happy, cause it wasn’t like pulling teeth. Not that it necessarily was before, but just being comfortable in the studio and comfortable with the songs and everything. Very low stress levels and things like that.
Yeah.
We went into the studio and thought it was just really unique looking. Not necessarily where you stay, but the actual studio itself is really unique. One of the rooms is like a two or three story – almost a silo-looking room. One of the control rooms is up on the second floor and there’s all glass looking down into it. There’s two stories and one where a big open ceiling would be, so it’s like two and a half stories room. It’s all like brick, where they do some of the bigger drums … they put some of the drum sets and get bigger sounds in. It’s just a unique looking studio. It wasn’t kind of like an office-like studio. Not that I’ve been to like a million studios, but a lot of ‘em are pretty similar. This one is kind of more unique and a little different. That was really cool. We did it all on tape. So, watching an engineer work so quickly and accurately, the two-inch tape was really cool, too. It’s definitely more like an art form. We were all fans of the records he’s done before. I was always like a big Neurosis fan – especially Times of Grace, and that was recorded there. In Utero by Nirvana. The fact that Jimmy Page and Robert Plant did a record there... The musicians that have recorded there, the bands that he’s worked with in the past and stuff. It’s kind of like hallowed ground. Going in there and being like, ‘Man, some really, really amazing bands have recorded their records here.’ We got along with Steve really well and the fact that we seemed to get along and have a good time was just really cool. Because in weird ways, whenever you look up to someone, you’re always worried about what they’re going to think of you and stuff. Besides someone you look up to, getting along with them and being friends with them is kind of like another…It makes you feel worth it in a weird sort of sense.
Great. I’ve always heard from interviews and whatnot, that he’s a hands-off kind of guy. Was there any cases or points where he actually got involved with your songs or you asked him for help?
Not really. He would definitely lend his opinion if asked. Or there were certain parts where he would say, "This part sounded weird. I’m not saying it’s bad, but I just want to point it out to you. If that’s what you’re trying to do, that’s fine. But if not, I just kind of wanted to make sure." It was more kind of like that. If we asked, "What do you think is better?" He really wouldn’t tell you what he thinks is better. He would tell you why he liked and disliked each thing. So, it was kind of more… Instead of him making decisions, he would explain himself and why each decision would be a positive and a negative. And then he would kind of leave it up to us. That was really cool. It was kind of more having someone there to point everything out to you, but still letting… Not saying, "I think this is better. Go with this." It’d be, "Do what you want, but here’s the reason why I would and would not go with this." That was the coolest part. If you asked him for help, he would always give you a really good explanation. It was really interesting. You could ask him a question… There was literally things we would ask him about and he would give, like, an hour explanation into things. I mean, it was never boring or anything. It was really interesting, because it was this vast bits of information coming at you constantly. I definitely came out of it with a much better understanding into recording and stuff. He definitely offered advice and he offered help. He wasn’t hands-off in the sense that he didn’t do anything. But he never did things on his own. He never said, "I’m going to do this, because it’ll sound better, period." It is strange to say this, because, "he was a giant help, but without actually helping." Like actually physically getting in there like a producer would do. He was more of just kind of a guide. In a weird way, he guided us along and helped us not make bad decisions, but didn’t force us to do anything at the same time.
Nice. Well, being aware of Steve Albini, I’m sure that you’ve learned a lot about him through reading about him and whatever. What are some things that surprised you about him or things you learned about him while working with him?
In all honesty, I thought he would be a lot more harsh. He’s kind of got a reputation as – we even read in one magazine, "An audio tyrant." I thought he would have been a lot more stand-off-ish, as far as talking. He was very friendly. We would sit down and have conversations on things that had nothing to do with music. I guess I thought he’d be a lot more business, not as encourage-able, if that makes sense. I thought he would be a lot more – I think the best word is – distant. Kind of like, you go in there and record. A lot of people say all he does is just press buttons and sit there. I read a bunch of stuff like that. That he was really militant about certain opinions, which he kind of is, but it doesn’t come off like you think it would. That was like the main thing that was different when we went in. With some of the big records he’s done, I expected him to – not that he would ever do this – be a little more like celebrity-like. But he ended up just being a guy like everyone else. He was down to earth and really friendly. We felt that he really concentrated on us. With the other bands he’s worked with, (we thought) that the smaller bands he would not be as focused on. We always felt like it was important that we were there and he definitely paid a lot of attention and focused and had his mind on what we were doing. I never knew anyone personally that had recorded there, so it wasn’t like people would tell me this, but you read things and, you know, a lot of things I’d read about him tend to make him out to be a little stricter, a little mean. We didn’t get that at all. We all had a good time and enjoyed ourselves. I speak for everybody in the band when I say that, too. The coolest thing overall was when we left the studio we had a CD and were listening to it. We had to drive from Chicago, where Steve’s studio was, to Arizona to start the In Flames tour. It was a two and a half day drive, and for the whole two and a half days we just listened to the record over and over. And we’d just sit back and realize what a good time we had and how happy we were with everything. That doesn’t happen. That was the first time that had happened in a long time. It was one of those things that gives you a little faith in the music industry again. I think that’s one of those things that can get to you pretty quick sometimes.
Item 5: A Book, Memories...
I listened to the whole album streaming once.
Nice.
I loved it. I thought it sounded really good.
Thanks. I’m excited. I’m always excited for people to read the lyrics and stuff. I don’t know. I was, like, bouncing around with some of the guys in the band and the manager, and I’m maybe going to start to ask people about this, to see if there would be an interest. I was thinking about doing, not like a book necessarily, but putting something together that was like all the lyrics ever -- beginning with Where Blood And Fire… up to now. I have a lot of them in their original… When I write them out and put them into a song, some words have to get changed or moved around or shortened or this or that to make it work as a song. I was thinking about doing something where everything is in its original form. And then doing a detailed explanation about what everything’s about.
That’d be cool!
Cause I know, like, the lyrics on Parade of Chaos were weird and a lot of people were kind of unsure what a lot of that was. I think, with some of the older stuff being hard to find, There’s, like, "Romance of the Southern Spirit," like the B-side no one knows. Just kind of putting something out that’s everything ever… And actually sit down… I’m not the best, like if I sit here talking, it’s not the best thing, but if I put some time and sat down and tried to dig through my thoughts and come up with, like, explanations, I think people would be able to grasp onto it. I think something like that might be kinda neat someday.
Yeah. I think a lot of people would dig that.
There’s a lot of stuff where I think people know what it’s about, but there’s like little things that might…kinda like little lines here and there that might kind of like… sometimes subtly put in there for that reason. Little things here and there that might go, ‘Okay, I see. It makes a little more sense now.’ Plus they’d be in original form, so it wouldn’t just the lyrics. It wouldn’t be, like, ridiculously different, but enough where it’d be worth having, I guess. Not for everybody, but anyone, but people that are interested in that stuff.
Cool -- a heavy metal coffee table book.
Yeah. One thing, too, I have tons of drawings of art. I have fooled around with a lot of photocopy manipulation stuff for awhile, because I didn’t have a computer. Neat stuff, like figuring out where everything lays on the photocopier and figure out how to double them and make weird images, like photocopying something, taking a piece of paper and putting it back in and putting something else -- like layering things. I was using an exacto knife and rubber cement. You can photocopy stuff and pull it and move it while it’s photocopying, and you get weird effects and stuff. So, I’d make flyers for people. I’ve been doing that now, like around town. I kinda do the same thing now, but I use photoshop.
Right.
It’s real basic, like cut and paste looking weird kind of stuff. I’ve been doing some stuff like that. I’ve been painting a lot. I have a lot of old line drawings and sketches and stuff. Maybe just putting stuff in there visually to break it up. There’s some pictures. I have old, weird Zao pictures, like us and Training for Utopia and Spitfire. Like when we did the one tour. I have every single member all together. Just like some weird old and personal stuff I took on my camera that wasn’t in any magazines or things like that. I could put some stuff like that in there. I was talking to our manager Ryan, who did our DVD, and we were just bouncing it around back and forth. Maybe if there’s enough interest, then, I don’t know. I can’t speak for him, but I don’t know how he would go about publishing it or what you would have to do. I was just kind of… maybe something like that. There was some things I’ve written, too. Not like lyrics or anything, but I’ll get kind of frustrated about something and write little papers on stuff. I might put some stuff like that in there. It’s not like super intense kind of stuff, it’s just kind of like, you know, sometimes you’ve got to kind of ruffle a few feathers to get people’s gears, mouth, and brain in motion.
I think sometimes when you like a band and you have something like that, it just makes you love the band more, because it gives you more insight.
I mean, I’ve always been a huge fan of music, so all the weird little things I’ll go out and collect. I just think about, ‘That would be cool, man, if bands that I was into did something like this or that…’ If people might enjoy it, why not do it? Just trying to make a few cool knick-knacks for people to pick up or whatever. I used the word "knick-knacks." I’m not too proud of that one.
What have been some of the highlights of your constant touring over the past couple of years? What are some stories you’d like to share maybe humorous, eventful, from your own perspective?
I’m trying to think. That’s something I might have to think about for a minute. The best is just like making friends. We’ve been in a good situation where every single band we’ve toured with… Not every single, but I’d say like 90% of the bands we’ve toured with since we’ve been touring have become pretty good friends of ours. No matter how much we do or do not have in common, it seems like it doesn’t really ever matter. Mainly just like having… We don’t do anything too crazy on tour, just show up and hang out and play, and usually drive all night. But mainly it’s just the little things, like making friends and hanging out. Like little circumstances, you know? I don’t know too many crazy stories. We don’t usually end up getting into too crazy of situations. We’re pretty mellow when it comes to that stuff. I’m really weird, when I get to a show, I don’t like to leave until the show is over. I have this weird thing that I have to be around in the club. I feel like I’ll miss something important if I leave. So I just usually end up hanging out, talking to people. The last cool things that happened when we were on tour with In Flames, Trivium, and Devildriver, I was hanging out with Dez, the singer of Devildriver, and I got to meet and hang out with Hank Williams III.
Oh really?
Yeah, that was really cool, man. I’ve always been a fan of his stuff and some of his side projects, and not only that, but the original Hank Williams. Then I used to see his dad on tv all the time every Monday Night Football game, so it was just like, that was the last thing that happened that was really cool. I was standing around outside, and my buddy was like, "Hey, wanna come hang out for a minute? Hank The Third is hanging out and stuff." I was like, "What?!" It was really cool meeting him. I’ve always been a fan of the old style country, like Johnny Cash and Hank Williams.
Oh yeah?
So, it was kind of like getting to meet a celebrity for me. He was a really cool guy. We just hung out for a while and talked. It was a really cool experience for me. It was one of that last really cool things that happened for us. A year or two ago we got to play with Machine Head and that was really cool. I was into the band a lot when I was younger. The record and the song "Davidian" was especially to me, I actually heard it the other night, and I had a… I was messing around with the computer and I had everything on shuffle and every time I hear that song -- to me that was one of the best heavy songs ever written, and it blows my mind. When we were on tour once we were with Devildriver and In Flames and seeing Rob Flynn at one of the shows and it was just really weird hearing him saying, "Hey, I remember you! You’re Dan from Zao." And I was like… Just the fact that someone in a band that you really look up to remembers you and stuff. And that’s like cool, you know? On that In Flames tour as well, Dimebag Darrell’s widow was hanging out with Trivium. So that was really an honor to meet her and, in all honesty, to become friends with her. She was just really nice and kind. To us, it was kinda like meeting someone famous, cause that was Dimebag’s girl, and just getting to sit around and listen to someone tell stories about him and stuff and hear ‘em swap stories. Overall, that was really cool, too. That tour was really fun. A lot of people came out here and there, that were like real big bands and stuff, so there was a lot of famous people here and there at those shows. So that was pretty cool.
Right on.
To me, my favorite memories are always just meeting people. Getting to hang out with people. On tour getting to meet people and then go on tour again and get to hang out again. I have friends that have moved all over the country, from San Francisco and Atlanta and everywhere. It’s always cool to… If I wasn’t on tour and stuff, I’d barely ever get to see these people ever. And I get to see ‘em a couple times a year from touring. It’s always been really cool. Having them come to shows is always fun. It’s kind of like -- not like a party necessarily -- but you know what I mean? It’s just something interesting to do.
What are some albums of recommended listening for our readers?
I don’t know. I’ve been listening to so much weird stuff lately. I’m trying to think. That’s one of those things I have to think about. I listen to so much weird stuff, too, that’s not necessarily heavy. I don’t know if someone reading a heavy magazine would be that into.
I was going to ask you a question later on down here about… "What do you enjoy listening to that would surprise us?"
In all honesty, something that… It’s weird, because there’s such a weird stigma around it, but one of the things I listen to a lot is really old Grateful Dead stuff.
Oh yeah?
That’s probably… People probably might be interested in that. On tour, we listen to real… I think everyone gets so weird, it got to the point where we toured so much everyone listened to all their CDs so much, that nobody wanted to listen to their favorite bands anymore. So we listen to Tina Turner, Hall & Oates, Eddie Money, Toto. A lot of smooth rock. It’s really bad, you know? We always said that, ‘If people drove with us for a day, they’d probably lose their mind.’ In honesty, I like everything. It’s one of those things where, if I’m listening to music, I’ll go from old classic rock that like to reggae or something to grind core to something like Bones Sebastian to old, weird punk, like the Beatmen or something like that. I’ve always enjoyed everything. I’ve been listening to… I’ve always been a big fan of Danzig and Misfits and Samhain was kind of like the band in between. I always had listened to them, but never real in depth. I got from a friend the Samhain boxset and that’s pretty neat. It’s weird, but I’m listening to that. This band called The National. It’s just kind of like, strange, like Nick Cave-esque. Kind of like the music side. It’s not lounge, it’s more like pop-py. I actually went through this phase where I started finding all these really old classic rock bands that were around that a lot of people never… They were, like, around at the time, but never got big enough to where, when you hear, like, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Jimi Hendrix or something, these bands were all around at that time,doing the same thing, but they never got the major recognition, so. Through the beauty of amazon.com I found 20 or 30 bands, like weird classic rock, like Cactus, High Tide, and some old, old weird stuff, like Plateau and Josephus. It’s weird, I kind of like stopped listening to anything new -- even the metal stuff I’ve been listening to is like old stuff. I like older Morphus and things like this, and listening to older classic rock. The last couple of things I got were the new Morrisey record, which is really good. There’s a new National record that came out. The Sounds. It’s kind of cool, this real Blondie-esque type rock. I just picked up that Red Coleman CD. I really like that. We just played a show with them and I was really into that. I listen to so much weird music, I guess. There’s not one thing that I listen to too, too much straight. I like classic rock that’s real blues country based. Stuff like that. Even the blues. I listen to Robert Johnson and Skip James and Sunhouse. I have a weird circle of friends. I have friends that listen to nothing but stuff from 1965 to 1975. I like hanging out with them and they’re playing me stuff and I find that I really like this and that. I have one friend who listens to nothing but old blues and stuff like that. So, I hang out with him and he’ll play me stuff like this, this, and this. I get exposed to a lot of different weird stuff. I like everything. I like the spectrum. I don’t like new country much. I like R&B. Some old R&B is not bad, I guess.
Yeah, Motown.
I don’t like anything with the word pop in front of it. Kind of like pop country, pop rock. Pop punk’s not bad. I like that, so I guess I can’t say that across the board.
Yeah.
And it seems now that people just want something heavy and cool; like that’s more important than the actual kind of what people are trying to say. I think it’s tricky. It’s like… A lot of that is always going to be kind of half negative and half positive. Because when it’s smaller, you don’t have as many people coming and it’s harder for bands to make it and get out there and tour and put out records; but it’s a little more heartfelt for that music. When it gets bigger, you can make a living, not like an extravagant living, but get by. You know, being able to play your music. Like small bands that in ten years ago probably never would’ve had the option of making a video or things like that -- being put on MTV or things like that. You didn’t see that, and now you do. It’s like every step you take that you lose about two. It’s interesting. I’m just curious to see what the next revolution is. That’s what we always try to do, partly with Zao, if it does become a fad and goes away, we’d like to still be around. It’s cool to kind of grab the crest of the wave and get big. We kinda like broke up at the most… We kind of went away for awhile and that’s when a lot of our friends’ bands went… Initially, on our last tour, we took out Unearth and Underoath, you know what I mean -- as support. And right after kinda like we’re done, that’s when a lot of the bands that we toured with and were friends with became really, really big. It was cool to ride the initial wave of everything getting bigger, and then we kinda dropped out and came back and it was kinda like… not that it was the plan or the purpose, but it’s just kinda the way things work, but kinda getting to come back into it when it’s… I guess we were involved way back when it was really small and it’s kind of neat to get involved with it and kind of get to do bigger things, you know? But at the same time I don’t think we necessarily changed our style of music or personalities to fit in or anything, we’re just kinda like being a part of it.
You kinda touched on this already, but what are some of your raw feelings and emotions regarding the greatness of metal?
Like I said, it’s hard. It’s weird, I guess. I kinda feel the same way about metal that I feel about skateboarding. I used to skate a lot as a kid, and it just wasn’t cool. I remember getting beat up and threatened all the time, like chased with bottles and golf clubs. Back then you did it because you were into it. It definitely wasn’t something cool to be into. At the time I got made fun of in school. We were considered a loser, whatever, for being into that stuff. Same thing with metal, ya know? But you were into it because naturally it was something you were into. I’ve seen that, along with skateboarding. Now, you can be into metal and stuff and it’s cool. And skating is cool and accepted. It’s just weird to me, because even weird things -- I’m not against Hot Topic or anything -- but like having a store like that that’s busy and in every mall. It’s really strange. I think it’s cool, because it gives a lot of bands a chance, but sometimes I think maybe there’s too many. Back, ten or 15 years ago there was a lot less bands getting signed, but the bands that did get signed were, like, always amazing. There was certain labels that, if you picked something up off of it, it was always phenomenal. Now there’s so much stuff out, there’s a lot more hit and miss. Then again, there’s still a lot of good bands. I think there’s a lot of really good metal bands around now. But at the same time, there’s… It’s definitely kind of like over-saturated. You’re just kind of getting a lot of the same thing over and over. But at the same time, I’ve always loved it, to this day, if there’s light out and you do find a good metal record, it’s always so cool. It sucks getting old, man. I’m starting to say things that I used to hear old people saying, and now it’s like coming out of my mouth. I’m like, ‘Man!’ I’m yelling out of my window for people to be quiet and stuff. I don’t do that, but I’ve thought about it. ‘Kids, be quiet now! I’m trying to sleep!’
Me, too. I was, like, weeding the garden in the front yard this weekend and my kids are playing and a car drives by fast, I almost jump up and yell at the car, ya know?
All kinds of stuff like that. Overall, I think it’s good. For every band… I think it’s just harder these days to find a really good… There’s a lot more things you could pick up that might not be as impacting as you’d expect them to be sometimes. Not that we’re the best thing ever, or anything, but that’s how I feel about it.
If you ever find yourself kind of lost in the vibe onstage, what is usually going on musically that takes you to that place?
Uhh, I guess once the songs become a song, you know what I mean? Once it’s all said and done, I especially develop an emotional attachment. And I also look at is as the one time you can run around and scream and kind of vent out and you’re not going to get in trouble or go to jail for. Or people are gonna think you’re nuts, you know? It’s definitely… I think it starts with… I’ve never had my hands in the music. I’m not like a big writer of the actual music of Zao or anything, so that’s kind of cool, because it’s like hearing a song that you like and you’re just lucky enough to be a part of it. So, it’s partly like you’re enjoying songs and part of it is once the lyrics come into place and the song takes on a personality, having more of a personal connection with it. It’s something you feel strongly about, you know? I try to write about things that weigh on me, and that’s just my way of getting ‘em off my chest. It’s actually, in all honesty, helped. There’s things that, after the last couple of years are like doing the songs and really thinking about them, it really helps me in essence, get over it. To exhaust yourself in time and really get over it and kinda let things go for a little bit. It’s kinda therapeutic, I believe. I’m definitely like a shy person, and I’m not very outspoken. Like, people that know me that… I’ve had friends that know me and they’ve heard Zao and stuff and they’ve seen us live or anything, but I’ve had friends that actually laugh -- not because they think it’s funny, because people that’ve known me for so long, and they’ve never even seen me run or get angry or anything like that. And when they get to see me get up... Partly that and partly the physical aspect of running around and not that we’re like crazy or anything, but…I kind of subconsciously go into my head a little bit. It’s kind of my way of dealing with being in front of all these people. It’s kind of like a weird… I kind of go into my own little place in my head, you know? To be able to do that and feel comfortable. It’s definitely like an alter ego type of deal, I think. I won’t go as far as to say, "Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde" or anything, but kind of an aspect of that. I guess that’s the best way of describing it.
As a vocalist, how much do rehearse before a tour?
Not much. We usually practice once before we leave for tour. I think, especially with a lot of the older stuff. We’ve been doing it so many times for so long, it almost feels like second nature. And then not really having to… I guess I never really forget it. When the new stuff comes along, we only have to play one or two songs that we focus on. I think a lot of the vocal parts are really rhythmic and they flow, like a lot of the snare parts. So, as long as I can hear the drums, usually, because we started playing two new songs on the last tour that we never even -- that we never rehearsed them, ever. Usually, I can listen to a song or two, even off the CD and it all comes back. I guess I’m kinda lucky in that sense. I don’t have the best memory in the world, but when it comes to that, it always seems to be there for me. In all honesty, we don’t really even practice that much. Once or twice before a tour, usually. But, there’s usually a core of songs we always play and there’s new ones, but it’ll be something like we’ll practice or we played it, like, in the past.
My next question is kinda related to that. Multi-part: What do you use as cues on when to come in with specific verses and choruses? Do you count? And which instruments are you mostly listening to onstage?
It depends. Usually it ends up being drums or guitar. I guess what helps me, too, is a few years ago I started playing drums.
Really?
In a band here. I still, like, play sometimes around here. I think playing and doing that helped my overall ability to understand rhythm.
Yeah.
I can think with certain beats to kinda know what’s going on. It helped me to think more with verse/chorus and actual measures and stuff; as opposed to just listening. Understanding more naturally where a chorus where it takes you in this part. It comes in. Sometimes it’ll be something that repeats four times or before it comes in there’ll be a little accent either on the drums or the guitar, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like a cymbal hit or a different note or a squeal or something that always lets you know it’s time. It’s kind of like when you’re driving and you see landmarks. You kind of pick up audio landmarks, like there’s always something weird or this little thing before a certain part or something to keep on time with.
Yep. What are your thoughts on the symbology of snakes?
Hmm. A lot of that’s really strange. I think that there’s a couple reasons. Some people see them as aggressive. And kind of like tough. In some connotations they have eyes, but biblically kind of like an evil persona. Kinda like in the Garden of Eden, they kind of have this, like, sly, kind of a human-esque, like they’re thinking. I would say that maybe because you have, like, the devil. They definitely can connotate a power. And a symbol of something people fear. Not everybody. I think it’s up to each person, I guess. I think they represent kind of an evil presence or power. I just think the fact in general people kind of have phobias of them and stuff. It is just a very uncomfortable image. Plus, it comes down to sometimes they’re just cool. Sometimes that’s what it comes down to. I have a couple.
Really?
I have a tattoo of a few, but it’s more of just weird, you know what I mean? Sometimes I think you’re drawn to certain images subconsciously, for reasons you might not even know. You might look at this and say this represents this, therefore I… I think sometimes you look at it and there’s just something about it. Something about it is just attractive, maybe visually. That’s a good question. I’ve never been asked that before.
The Fear Is What Keeps Us Here. A great title. What are your thoughts behind it?
Have you ever seen the movie Jacob’s Ladder?
Yes! Oh, man! It’s been a long time. Cool movie.
It’s kind of where it comes from. That’s kind of one of my favorite movies ever. It’s really strange. I’ve always been fascinated with biblically what happens between actual death and then heaven or hell, or afterlife. It never gives too much detail. It says, like, you sleep until He comes back; but it’s like, does anything happen then? Or when it happens, do you just go up? Are you escorted? Or do you wander? You know what I mean? It’s kind of like one of those areas where it’s not…it doesn’t really get… biblically there’s not a lot of information involving it. I think it’ll be, not like scared or anything, but sometimes I’m just curious. That’s why I think Jacob’s Ladder is neat. I don’t necessarily believe in a purgatory. I find it interesting that that movie is about a guy that prior to him kind of in at the end, he goes to heaven with his son. The whole movie is him working out certain things in his life in his head before he leaves. Towards the end they start talking about his chiropractor that he goes and sees that’s talking about the fear that he can’t leave and he can’t ascend until he gets over that fear. Then he talks about the evil or the bad things that happen are maybe like good things in disguise. They are trying to get you to let go of all your things. Kinda like people holding on to the earth. They’re not ready to leave. They’re scared. Or there’s things that they never got answers to. And it keeps them. It’s not necessarily about purgatory. I don’t want to make it seem like that, but it kind of extends into everything and a lot of things that we do and don’t do are based on fear. Ya know? And that’s one of the main things that can hold us back from ever achieving a lot things. It’s like that fear. The reason it’s not "fears keeps us here." I’m kind of a fan of some of the Hunter S. Thompson literature. He talks about it -- "the fear," as if it’s an entity.
Yeah.
So, it kinda like evolved into that, kind of like an image of an actual person. Like, physical fear -- a physical form. The last of the record is about letting go. That final time, not being scared. Also coming back to not being scared of certain things in life because of fear. I got into this other movie, called Dead End. It’s kind of like Jacob’s Ladder. It’s about this family, they’re going through Christmas and it’s Christmas Eve and they’re going to someone’s house and they’re in this car and everyone falls asleep and they almost get in an accident and they wake up and they’re on this road and this road just doesn’t stop. There’s no houses or no turns off, no speed limit signs or anything. They end up, like, picking up this young girl and this baby. It’s kind of like a horror movie, but it’s kind of like the same idea -- people working through those. They’re going back and having old arguments and stuff, like working things out with people prior to going on. I thought it was interesting. It always interested me. It’s not necessarily a purgatory, like an actual purgatory place; but I’m curious if even subconsciously, between, like, you know, if that’s something that might happen to people. Kind of like an in-between stage, where they make peace with everything that has happened to them and all the circumstances in their lives. Even if it’s like some weird subconscious thought or something, maybe your spirit or something in the back of your head, like, prior to going to heaven. I just wanna just explore something that fascinates me. I’m fascinated with the unknown, in a sense. You know what I mean?
Yeah. I can relate.
So, it’s just kind of like that. But that’s kind of what… In terms… A lot of the songs are based, with kind of like different little fears and stuff. The Fear That Keeps Us Here, did you hear it? The whole thing? The very ending, which kinda has the long intro and over and over.
Yeah.
Kinda like stuff like that. That song in general is mainly all about that.
I couldn’t tell if I was at the beginning of the album or not, because it was just streaming and it didn’t tell me what song was playing. It just showed me that splash page.
But overall, that’s kind of the idea of it.
How well do you think listeners got the concept of The Funeral of God? What did people miss? And why do you think that is?
I don’t know. I think it was never, like with the label switch and stuff. I think people saw it as, like, as maybe… It was weird, because it was like an idea before any of that happened. It was just kind of about, it’s more like a commentary on, like, the cockiness of man. A lot of it was kind of like sarcastically. It was just about, you know, how a lot of people don’t feel like they need anybody. The story was set up with, not like the death necessarily, but like the going away, to kind of give like the idea of, like, what if people didn’t believe, like something happened or whether there was a God. So, it kinda helped to establish in a roundabout way without having to pull people’s teeth, like there was a God. There is a God. You know what I’m saying?
Yeah, yeah.
It’s kind of like a weird way to bring it up. What if? Cause then you could say… There was people that believed and there was people that didn’t believe and because the song talks about the big event that happens in the sky. People know it happened. It kind of like establishes for some people the fact that, even if you don’t believe in God, even like in a weird way, we’re going to talk about it. You know what I mean? In a way that people can’t really argue with. It kind of started with a weird idea. The thing is, I don’t think that’s going to happen. Some people thought I was saying that this is what’s going to happen. This is not necessarily but maybe what I wanted to happen or something like that. It was a fictional story. I was always into C.S. Lewis and things like that. I don’t know if people do that anymore, you know what I mean? Like kind of have a fiction based on truth.
Right. Make you think…
That was part of it, too. You know what, man? People just don’t seem to be interested in stuff about it anymore. I bet you, if a band like us did this, it would make… It’s interesting for me to listen to people that said, "What’s going on?" And they sat down and read every word. I wonder if I could get people to actually pick up lyric books and read? Maybe because it didn’t matter, maybe because it was creative, but in essence, maybe it would make people pick it up and read it. So, it’s kind of like… Some people might have thought that we were trying to be cool and write some evil record, or whatever. That never had anything to do with it. Maybe if it was on Solid State it might have never come out, because that might not have been something they were comfortable with releasing. So, that was kind of neat in that sense. One of the reasons we signed with Ferret, too, is they weren’t that concerned about it; as far as the backlash or whatever. It was kind of an idea that came up and was able to be done because of the circumstances. It is meant to be taken seriously, in the sense of the ideal, but not serious as something that really happened. I just think some people think that: a) we’re trying to do something coy to alienate certain people or get away from certain things, which was never the plan; or b) how I really feel or think. That’s not necessarily it either. It was somewhat of a fictional, sarcastic view of things. Some of them are from different personality things. Some of the songs are meant to be from someone that believes in God and some were from the viewpoint of someone that doesn’t believe in God. It was meant to be taken seriously, but wasn’t meant to be taken as truth. You know what I mean? It was more to provoke ideas. My whole thing was to just get people to think -- not only to make people to open books, but I’m sure people sat down and had discussions about it. If I can put something up and make people interact, whether it was like reading lyrics or if it was seeing me and talking to me and expressing their thoughts or talking to their friend. I’m just glad to put something out to cause some sort of reaction. I’m not always looking for a negative reaction, but I didn’t mean to get people to be hurt or upset or anything, but I want to get people to read, get people to talk, all just in buying the CD. To me, that just doesn’t happen that much anymore. So, that was kind of the planning behind it. When I consider the whole time, I had a peace about it. It wasn’t something I felt like, ‘I better not do this,’ you know what I mean? I didn’t necessarily understand why, but in the end I think it might… I’m sure some people might have had a negative impact, and some people that took the time to look into it, it asked the right questions. In the end, I don’t think they were offended or anything.
Yeah, I was so glad you did it. I thought it was really cool.
I think it was like a jolt. To get people thinking again. It’s a weird way to do it, but sometimes there’s no other way, you know?
That’s right.
I don’t know. I just had fun with that. My friend Gabe did some stuff on it. I didn’t necessarily… I was in a band with a kid that I was living with at the time, and he was just a really good artist, a really good lyricist. He writes stuff a lot. I play him songs and he would jot down a line real quick and I’d say, "That’s weird. That’s right what I was thinking about. That was really cool." So, it was fun, too. That whole album, lyrically, was bounced off my friend back and forth. It wasn’t like, ‘Oh no! I can’t write lyrics anymore!’ It was kinda like, ‘I think it would be fun to have my buddy work with me on this a little bit.’ It was someone I respected. Not only respected what they wrote lyrically, but shared a lot of the same style and insight as my writing style and the way he thinks. I always really respected that, and that was cool. I had some fun with him doing that.
Right on. I assume you saw it. What were your thoughts on the Why Should The Devil Have All The Good Music documentary?
I’ve only seen half of it so far. I’m going to actually finish it in the next day or two. I came home from tour and the only thing I had to watch DVDs in was my Playstation 2, and it bit the dust. It took me awhile. I just bought another cheap DVD player a couple days ago. I didn’t have cable for four years and I just moved into a house with a couple friends, and we got digital cable, above all things. I’ll come home from work and, I don’t really sit and watch tv a lot, but I’ll turn it on while I’m cleaning my room or this and that, you know? But I always end up getting sucked into something. Especially, I’m a big fan of the Science Channel and National Geographic. I end up watching some weird show about how the Greeks figured out how to… they were the original inventors of medicine and stuff. It fascinates me. People go into some old tomb or temple and finding stuff. Then I’ll end up going, ‘I’m not going to watch tv, ‘ and then I’ll end up watching that. So, everyone has seen it but me. I’ve seen parts of it. It’s not something I was lax about watching, it’s just like, since I’ve gotten home. We went from the studio to the In Flames tour and we were only home for two weeks and I didn’t really have a way to watch it then, and then we got back from this one and I was on medicine for awhile, so it wasn’t even until last week or so that I really had a chance and then it’s just been like my hand got better and I’ve been coming up to work and stuff. I try to stay busy. I can’t sit home a lot. I get stir crazy, like cabin fever. I come up to work everyday. I don’t even do anything. I just sit around and kind of hang out with the guys that work here and things like that. I don’t really tattoo or do anything.
What do you do for fun?
I just like getting out of the house, so when I come back I come back in the swing of things already. I’ve been just hanging out in the waiting room. Plus, people stop in and I can make appointments and stuff. It ain’t too bad.
Describe some quirks of your current band members.
Let me think. It’s hard to say. We always sleep in hotel rooms and I snore. And Scott can’t sleep, so he has to wake me up, like, ten times a night. Cause every time I snore, he wakes me up and goes, ‘Dude, roll over.’ When I roll over, then I roll back on my back, so neither of us sleep the whole night on tour usually. I keep him up and he has to wake me up. I fall back asleep and wake him up and he wakes me up again. That pretty much just goes on all night. In all honesty, it’s not too bad. We’re in the van, everyone kind of does their own thing, you know, listens to headphones, and this and that. When we get to the show, everyone’s doing their own thing. At night Scott and Marty go to bed really early usually. Me and Jeff and Jason will be up. We usually watch tv and then go to bed. We definitely define the style of have a lot of personal time, even though we’re always together. So, in all honesty, there’s nothing, like, too bad. Surprisingly.
I’ve got a two-part question here: What is the most heinous thing vs. the most beautiful thing you’ve ever seen a Christian do?
Well, the worst thing… I didn’t physically see it, but would definitely the most heinous thing would be the guy that a few years ago a guy from the praise and worship team that raped my girlfriend while I was gone on tour. And then, she wouldn’t press charges and he was just making stuff up about me. Because I wanted to say something about it. It was just crazy. That was definitely the worst. Umm. The best thing is hard, because it’s not, like, any major events. I just… It’s not like one thing we saw. I’ve seen people help people out with money. Just like really take someone under their wing even though it’s effecting their life negatively to help them. I think the best things and the most positive things are just the simple things, you know? Like people… I’ve seen people take in someone that was… that annoyed everybody, that was having a real hard time with their life, and obviously helped get them back on their feet. Even though that person might be annoying them a little, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Things like that. I think it’s just like the simple things. I guess the best things I’ve ever seen people do is just be, like, genuine, show genuine compassion and disregard for their own personal comforts. To see someone that might not even be that good of a friend of theirs, pull their life back. The general concern for other people. I think it’s weird, too, because it’s partly something you can sense about other people. I just know a few people that are just the most…like, when you’re around them, you just feel like…it’s always positive, it’s always a comforting. You know in the back of your mind that that person is there for you no matter what. No matter what you do. That person will always be there to help you out. I guess it’s people that genuinely are compassionate and caring for people. Not always people that are like their friends or something. I guess just like actually like the feeling of someone having the presence of the personality of Christ, I guess. Just that really peaceful, compassionate, non-judging thing that you can pick up off some people. It’s really awesome. These are people you just want to hang out with. I’ve known a few people like that -- not a ton. And I’m not saying that you have to be like that to be whatever, but there’s just some people that have that. That anointing on them. Being around them, you feel positive. Being around them, in a weird off way you feel true compassion and true selflessness. They’re happy people. It’s not something you see everyday, and I think that makes it more impacting. That’s kind of what I think, that they’ve somehow -- it’s not a formula -- but somehow it’s happened to achieved, kind of like that happens -- that pure form of a walk with God, you know what I mean? It’s different for everybody, but some people just have it more natural vibe to ‘em I guess.
That’s pretty awesome. Well, congratulations on the Pittsburgh Steelers winning their fifth Super Bowl.
Thank you, man. There’s a little DVD, I don’t think it’s going to be with all the Cds, but it’s coming out and it’s got us watching -- not the playoff game, but the one before it -- so that’s pretty nice. It’s got us jumping up and down on the couch and stuff. Everyone’s freaking out. It’s fun. It’s really weird around here about that. It’s like even people that don’t like sports. It’s just a very prideful thing around here. It’s crazy. Even when they’re not doing good, all year round people are getting Steelers tattoos and stuff. There’s almost a weird part of the culture of this area. Everyone is just so into it. People that aren’t usually into sports -- they don’t like sports at all -- they don’t watch any other games, but they’ll watch every Steelers game. It’s always a good time. Then when they lose everyone gets mad. This year they didn’t. so that’s good. Yeah, that’s cool. We were thinking about a couple of Steelers incorporated things into Zao merchandise. Just for fun.
That’s cool. Well, dude. You’ve been on the phone with me for two hours. Thanks so much.
Oh, that’s no problem, man.
By the way, Revolver Magazine asked me to compile a list of "Ten Essential Christian Metal/Hardcore Albums," and do a blurb on each one, and I put Where Blood & Fire Bring Rest on there.
Thank you, man.
You bet. I kinda wrestled over which Zao album to include. I almost did the best-of, because it had so many good songs on it; but I had to go back to the one that really got me.
That’s what’s so hard about being in a band sometimes. It’s like every band, pretty much ever, like, the early stuff is always everyone’s favorite. Every band I can think of, half the bands I like. It’s rare that you like their new stuff best. I think that sometimes that’s weird. But that’s still a lot of ‘em’s favorite albums. People really like the new stuff, but that’s still their favorite. It’s cool just to be included.
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Zao - Finish this feature by Doug Van Pelt in the new HM Magazine. Available now, Issue can be found at select stores or for a reduced subscription rate.
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