Heaven's Metal Exclusive: Eternal Ryte Interview

While our cover story for the Dec/Jan issue of Heaven's Metal Fanzine (#71) was long, it wasn't 5,737 words long. Thus we are posting the full-length interview here. As usual, I was a slacker and waited way too long to post this, but ... hey! this is a retro / "where are they now?" type piece anyway, so who's to complain?

Eternal Ryte – Nehemiah Metal Resurrected

By Jonathan Swank

In 1990, West Coast melodic metal warriors, Eternal Ryte, birthed from the Hollywood glam scene, unleashed their debut—and only full length album—World Requiem on Pure Metal Records. Now, almost 20 years later, Roxx Productions has secured the rights to re-release World Requiem along with early demo and live tracks in a two disc set called Anthology. In a complex interview that spanned 3 time zones, I recently caught up with singer Phil St. Vincent via phone and guitar hero Bobby Smith via two internet chats (yours truly lost the first). Read on to hear more about the Anthology project, the 80’s Hollywood metal scene and to find out, “What happened to Eternal Ryte?”

JS: Tell us about the upcoming re-issue. Where did the idea come from to do this?
BS: It came from reading all the message boards about these kids and fans wanting World Requiem but not wanting to pay the high prices on eBay; they were going for 50-75 bucks, and I was also getting emails from people wanting me to send them CDs and or burn them. So the timing was right, after having some great interest. I came up with the idea and contacted Bill from Roxx. Most of the stuff I did on my own. I compiled all the demos, pictures, and flyers. I had to transfer all the demos from cassette tape to CDR

PS: We’ve been getting approached by a few people, but nothing ever materialized. I think Bobby and I have had so many projects going on that we really weren’t pursuing something that we had done so long ago, but once we realized that so many people were still enjoying it after so many years we were like, “Well, maybe we should do something with it.” But the offers that we got to put it together were really not—I don’t know if respectful is the correct word—they just seemed to be really half-hearted, with wanting to throw something out, I think, to see if they could make money off it. And then Bill (at Roxx Productions) presented something—he just seemed to really have a love for it. Bob said that this is what he wants to do and that it was his decision and I said, “Wow, that’s even more grand than something that I had thought about doing.” So, that’s pretty much how this anthology came about. To be honest, it’s more of a labor of love of Bill’s than either of ours. I mean, we loved the idea that people wanted it, but Bill was just so into it that we had to do it.

Cool, will it be remastered or remixed?
BS: Remastered, new artwork with vintage photos, promo shots, and all the vintage flyers from most of our gigs.

I understand it’s going to contain some demo material.
PS: I’m not sure what era prior to World Requiem is gonna be emphasized. I assume it’s gonna be mostly Anthem, the independent EP thing that got us signed. The extended version of “The King” is on there—its got an extra verse—and a couple songs that never made the album.

I understand only the first 100 copies of the reissue will contain a bonus DVD with live footage?
BS: Yes, but depending on how it goes we will probably do more.

Phil, was there anything in particular from Anthem that was near and dear to you; was there a song that you really loved or that meant a lot to you?
PS: I actually liked the extended version of “The King.” And I really thought that some of the songs that were put on Anthem were more visceral. We had Steve Brown doing the production on it and he was a really, really good producer. He didn’t let us lose the energy or the aggressiveness that the band had on that demo and I kind of feel like we lost some of that when we did the actual album. I just think I like the presentation of some of the songs more on Anthem than I do on World Requiem.

I had heard that—in sorting around on some of the internet sites—that Anthem was a little bit more raw and actually a little bit heavier.
PS: Yeah, it was. I guess it’s common knowledge among audiophiles who actually like our album that there were two schools in how the production was coming along with World Requiem. I was not a big fan of what it became because I thought it was too slick; there weren’t any “guts” to it any longer.

Let’s jump back in time to the mid 80’s, when Christian metal was in its embryonic stages. What did you guys think about metal back then, you know, the whole glam/commercial scene? In light of that, what motivated you to create Eternal Ryte?
BS: Well, we all grew up on Motley Crue, Van Halen, Great White, GNR, Maiden, Priest and Ozzy. I especially, being a guitar player, loved the great guitar playing coming from it: George Lynch, Eddie Van Halen, Randy Rhoads, and Jake E Lee. So I guess we really loved more secular metal than Christian because it sounded better and it was more pro. However, we did like what Stryper was doing with metal; we decided we would join them as well.

PS: I grew up in Hollywood. I had been going to clubs and seeing bands play since I was about 13 or 14. I grew up working at the Troubadour and The Country Club and The Whiskey. I saw the whole scene develop, from the early versions of Ratt and Motley Crue into what became the Sunset Strip scene that everyone knows about. I always had fun with the glam scene because it was just about fun—about doing something that was just really outrageous. I know that some people were really just taken back by the androgyny of it. Other than the fact that people were wearing outrageous clothes, I just thought it was fun. I saw it more as Cabaret/Vaudevillian…

More of a show…
PS: Yeah, it was a show … it was a show more than a lifestyle. Unfortunately, there were people that were way more into the lifestyle than the music. That is probably one of the reasons why the entire Sunset Strip scene just imploded; it became more about look than substance. Labels were still signing horrible bands to lucrative deals and it just collapsed. The glam scene itself has really never gone away, it has just morphed into more of a Goth/glam scene and hence, you get Marilyn Manson and acts like that. Personally, I find the glam scene now a little too intense; its actually taken on more of a “hostile” thing now.

It seems, back in the day, that everybody just kind of laughed at this stuff … it was just kind of fun.
PS: Exactly, we were sitting back stage at shows laughing at the fact that the men’s restroom probably had more eyeliner and hairspray than the women’s restroom.

Okay, did you guys feel any competition from the other bands at the time; did you all hang out from time to time?
BS: Yes, some of us hung out and had BBQ’s and played basketball and did jams in garages. I didn't feel any competition between bands, but that doesn't mean there wasn't any. For myself, I was in my own little world and didn't really care. I just wanted to be the best guitar player I could be.

How did you guys see yourself fitting into the metal scene at that time and then also within the Christian metal scene? Were you compared a lot to Stryper at the time?
BS: Yes, as far as being a Christian band in a secular crowd, but as far as sound, no.

PS: It’s funny. To a certain extent, I think we might have almost hindered ourselves because we really had fun with the “over-the-top” glam scene, but our music wasn’t really ever glam. I think the “poppiest” we got was maybe, Dokken …but there were a lot of Yngwie, Dio and Loudness influences in our band—especially Loudness. A lot of people don’t know that we were very heavily influenced by the Japanese band Loudness. In fact, our costumes on Anthem were completely taken from the Loudness tour that happened when they first broke into America. Obviously, it was amazing to us when they went on tour with Stryper. That band was always heavy on mine and Bobby’s hearts, so when they went on the road with Stryper, I was like, “Wow, this is like a really weird prayer being answered.” Shortly after that tour, the singer left. Because he was so impressed with the dynamic of how Stryper was able to share a deep message he ended up leaving Loudness to go back to college to get a Sociology degree—to help kids.

That’s awesome. Well, how did you come up with the name Eternal Ryte?
PS: It was vote process. We had, like, 900 names. We got it down to a couple. Funny thing is … we actually had the name Rage of Angels as well. It was Rage of Angels and Eternal Ryte as the two names we had it down to. The other two founding members in the band, Mike Berry and John Cicerelli, just thought that Rage of Angels sounded too—I don’t know if unspiritual was the right word—it was just too agro for them. So, we ended up with Eternal Ryte, because it seemed to work better and there were so many different meanings and facets to that name—it just seemed a little less threatening or menacing.

Did you then, or do you now (looking back) consider ER to be one of the pioneering Christian metal bands?
BS: I suppose, looking back, it seemed we were at least considered to be, but I was so involved in what we were doing I never took the time to see it. Looking back, I guess the only reason I would think that is from reading all these Christian metal message boards.

Certainly, by today’s standards, you guys were evangelical metal …but at the time, did you see yourselves that way?
BS: I didn't really see us that way. Then again, Phil wrote all the lyrics, so maybe he saw it that way more than I did. I was just a guitar player writing the music. I think we were on a mission to help God—and help kids.

PS: At the time, we got a lot of flack. I wrote, like, virtually all the lyrics and I got a lot of flack for coming off as so critical of the church. Especially towards the end of “Requiem”—the last line on that album—I got a lot of flack from evangelical churches because they thought of me as criticizing the church when clearly I was just painting a very clear picture of a lot of the community churches in all or our neighborhoods that just do nothing for the community and exist just to keep themselves as a viable entity with an income. I was raised in the suburbs and I see a lot of churches that really aren’t evangelical. In fact, some of the churches that I went to as a kid don’t even have that as part of their statement of faith. “Evangelism is for evangelists, not for the church,” they say. Therefore, they don’t reach out to their own community. In “Requiem,” that last line:

Sunday suburbs, great white building stands alone
Dead asleep, like those that dwell inside…
Bless me Lord, now I cry
While outside scores of beggars cry
Empty words like epitaphs on tombs

I got so much flack from some churches for that. It’s funny, because now the lyrics seem really evangelical, but at the time I actually got some guff from people that said I didn’t sing enough about the love of Jesus.

Yeah, well the standards have certainly changed and things have morphed. We have a whole new generation of people … many of the kids nowadays haven’t even grown up in the church, so the approaches and the terminology and everything is a lot different. But, yeah, I would have categorized you guys—even back in the day—as evangelical. You used a term one time that I absolutely love—in an interview with Doug Van Pelt … Nehemiah Metal … I love that description.
PS: That was kind of funny … me and my friend Matt were talking about Nehemiah and how he was the warrior prophet and how he wasn’t afraid to beat somebody up if need be … if they were playing around. It’s like, “Either leave or stay and be serious.” That was totally right on; I thought that was very cool. I was always intrigued with that one prophet and how he was overseeing the rebuilding of the Temple and he had a sword by his side. I believe there was one section where some of the people building a section of the wall had some idols and he literally beat them up—tore their clothes off—because they were being an abomination to the rebuilding of the Temple. It was sorta like, “Don’t be here, get out, leave this alone.” And I sort of felt that way about certain people that were calling themselves Christians in a lot of churches. The funny thing is, when you start playing in a lot of churches, you start seeing how people will water something down to keep the peace. Being that I was essentially raised in my early 20’s and late teens at Sanctuary, there was no such thing as keeping the peace because there was constant chaos. The kids were always coming in with problems and issues and we were making sure that these kids were fed and not dying.

Well, I can relate to that completely. My primary job is as a physician so I deal with that all the time. You don’t come in and beat people over the head with the Gospel. You just treat them at the human level first and you let your light shine through and if you have opportunities to talk you do … but, you know, I’m here to make a difference in the community … I’m here to help people and that’s my goal. I liked that a lot about the early Sanctuary Church…
PS: It was almost like a triage … they had to deal with the bleeding first—doing whatever invasive thing they had to do to get these kids well before they could start nurturing them. That was the whole attitude that Eternal Ryte had—it dictated the lyrics and how we would present ourselves on stage.

Bobby, if there was one band that best exemplified what metal in the late 80’s was all about, who would that be?
BS: Well, one band that comes to mind would be Judas Priest.

Yeah, Screaming for Vengeance was awesome.
BS: I think they were really metal.

Definitely
BS: Iron Maiden a close second.

Maiden would be my first choice. Yeah, there is just something about Maiden that screams metal. Well, you guys did your fair share of club gigs back in the day, correct? How were you received by audiences/media and what are some of your recollections of your live performances, either good or bad?
BS: Yes, we played all the clubs in LA and surrounding areas. Every gig would start out the same with the secular bands just wondering what to expect from some Christian band, and then they were always blown away by our level of musicianship. We even had Akira from Loudness say he loved us and Tommy Thayer from Black and Blue come back stage at The Roxy to meet us. So I would say I have fond memories of our live performances.

I never had the opportunity to see you guys live … did you typically share a message?
PS: Not really, I didn’t share a lot on stage. That became a purposeful thing at one point because we mostly played with secular bands at Hollywood clubs. We would do two or three free show at a church once a month and those would be shows that we would share at. I just felt it was deceitful and wrong for me to have people pay 15 bucks to get into a club and then listen to me preach the Gospel for free. I had this thing for people just going on and on … I have seen bands with a 45 minute set where they would share for 20 minutes and they would never be asked back to the club again.

Yeah, I agree with your approach. It makes a lot more sense to me.
PS: I didn’t not share … I just didn’t go into long-winded speeches. I’d make sure at the end of the show to share the gift of salvation and at the very beginning of the show that we were a Christian band. And generally, before a ballad, I would share a little bit about the love of Christ.

How did you get signed to Pure Metal when you were a West Coast band? Did your live shows help?
BS: No, our gigging didn't help get that deal. Refuge approached us once and didn't like the demo we submitted. We did Anthem (our 3rd demo) which was being sold at Cornerstone, I believe, and Gavin Morkel bought a copy and loved it. He flew out to meet us for dinner to tell us about Pure Metal records and wanted to sign us.

PS: Well, that was a weird thing. The first time we approached them I didn’t think we were ready. It just seemed that every Christian band was getting signed from the East Coast. And we were like, “Wow, a lot of bands getting signed aren’t really that good, so why don’t we send a demo out there and see who wants it?” We got a lot of interest from a lot of really low budget, independent Christian companies, but we knew we wanted to go with one of the big three Christian labels: Pure Metal, Pakaderm, or Word/Myrrh.

So they didn’t like the demo that you sent?
PS: The first one, no, not at all. When we got the initial denial from Gavin Morkel, I knew that if we were gonna go for one of the big labels that we weren’t going to get signed. But I also knew that because we were a West Coast band—and nobody was interested in a West Coast band except Stryper and maybe Holy Soldier to a small extent—that we were gonna have to put out something considerably better. And that is when we found Steve Brown—who did Anthem—and I believe he had just finished one of The Cult’s records, so he had a name. He gave us literally a month of his studio to do that Anthem demo. Great guy.

Were you happy with that whole experience? As a songwriter, did you think that the label/producer captured what you wanted for Requiem?
BS: Yes, the songs were not changed at all. We really got to do what we wanted. I think vocally more stuff was changed and Phil probably has a different perspective on it. But overall I am happy with the way it came out. Although, if I were to change one thing it would be to get rid of the second rhythm guitar track and just have one—they had me double all rhythm tracks (for a thicker sound). I was a fan of the way Ted Templeman did Van Halen with one guitar track panned to the left.

Phil, how would you characterize your voice … because I always thought you were a great middle between Michael Sweet and Don Dokken?
PS: I was really influenced by Dio—and you can really hear that on Anthem—because in World Requiem I couldn’t scream and I couldn’t growl and I really did come off sounding more like Don Dokken.

Bobby, Doug Van Pelt told me that I should ask you this for fun...
Where would you rank yourself among the LA guitarists of the time?
BS: LOL!

This is supposed to be for fun…
BS: I am laughing … I have never thought of that. I think I could definitely keep up and hold my own with the best of them. How's that?

I don't doubt it. On a more serious note, tell me about the Ozzy audition.
BS: Well, I was working for BC Rich at the time, which had Phil (Ozzy’s bass player) as an endorsee, and he would come in all the time and told me I should audition for them. I was always playing at the shop. I sent in some rough mixes of Requiem and pictures and they called me the next day. Told me to learn “Crazy Train,” “I Don't Know” and “Bark At The Moon.” I already knew the first two. The audition went really well. I rehearsed for well over an hour. They recorded me playing with them, took pictures, and taught me the live versions. They already had Zack chosen for the gig but they were told to keep auditioning until it was set in stone for him. So, I guess I didn't have a chance, but am still glad I had the experience.

So what happened to ER? You guys just kind of disappeared?
BS: Yeah, I had been in the band for about 6 years and nothing was coming from the record company—no tour support, nothing! Then, Pure Metal/Refuge was sold to Star Song, and I think I just needed a change and was going in a different direction than Phil. So, I left the band in 1990 or 1991 and got married … and they hired another guitar player, submitted new material and were dropped from the label … and just fell apart from there.

Well, I think it would have been pretty hard to replace you…BS: Lol ... thanks … well, after all, I was the one who started the band.

So, what have you guys been up to lately?
PS: I am playing with a band called Spiders & Snakes that is essentially the band London—the band that essentially started the whole glam scene in LA. The funny thing is that the drummer in Spiders & Snakes was in the band Joshua, which actually predates Stryper as the first Christian band in LA. He actually auditioned for ER, but we got his demo the day before we decided to go with Scott. Had he been in ER, he would have never been in London; he would have never got signed and toured; London would have fallen apart and I would not be playing with them now.

BS: I build guitars for Grosh Guitars. I have been in the guitar industry since 1984—worked for Charvel/Jackson, BC Rich, ESP, Tom Anderson.

Man, that is really cool ... so that keeps you close to music?
BS: Yes it does.

I understand you have a rockabilly band called 18 Wheeler?
BS: Yes, well now called The Mighty 18 Wheeler, kinda more rockabilly/punk/rock—sometimes Metal Billy.

How did you make the leap from metal to rockabilly?
BS: I have always loved rockabilly. Even when playing metal I was going to See The Stray Cats, and The King Bee's … I just love really well-played guitar music, no matter what style it is.

The Stray Cats tune on Guitar Hero is really tough!
BS: Lol, try playing it for real … it's actually more challenging than metal. I sing now, so playing guitar and singing is tough.

Well, let me ask a much more personal question…
It seems that many of the early Christian pioneers have either fallen away or moved outside of mainstream Christianity. Where do you guys stand with your faith today?
BS: I do still believe, I may not go to church like I used to or play in a Christian band. But I still have faith … so I haven't really fallen away.

That's very honest. I really think our faith is portrayed best in our actions towards others, not in what we do during a church service.
Phil…
PS: It’s still the same—the same basic principle faith—Christ born a man, resurrected after dying on the Cross for our sins. Though I now consider myself a working musician and I work, like anybody would, in a secular environment, nothing’s changed my perception of salvation and the need for salvation and the fact that when a door is open I need to share the Gospel. I find myself doing that a lot more—in the last year and a half since I joined Spiders & Snakes—than I had in the preceding 5 years.

That’s awesome to hear. It just seems like we hear so many horror stories about the early bands—the bands that we really looked up to.
PS: Oh, I definitely had my moment of falling away. I fell pretty hard … pretty darn hard. It wasn’t so much that I stopped believing in God, it was more of an arrogant “resting on my laurels thing.” I did my job… I did my job, I “served my time in the Army”—which is absolute balderdash—which is the surest way to destroy any kind of walking, dynamic relationship with Jesus Christ … to suddenly think that you did your part and now you are going to retire.

The retirement concept is not Biblical. I always meet so many people that talk about their portfolio and I always think, “Where did you come up with that.”
PS: Exactly, exactly.

One of the things that I think is interesting to hear from artists and people in general that I talk with every day … we live in such general depravity and disarray in our world these days and there is more and more evidence of the wages of sin … how does a Christian live in such a world these days?
PS: You know, that’s a weird question for me to answer because even at the pinnacle of my Christian walk and my ministry in ER and my being on staff at Sanctuary, I was always immersed in the Hollywood culture. I mean, not immersed as in partaking in the debauchery, but I was always surrounded by it being that my family were in bands, my friends were in bands, my coworkers were in bands. I almost got used to being in the midst of it and I wonder if that’s what the apostles must have felt like? I wonder if the apostles always felt that they were in the midst of debauchery?

I am sure a lot of them did.
PS: After ER broke up, it wasn’t like it stopped. The hellions were still the hellions; the drug addicts were still the drug addicts and the girls that had no respect for themselves were the same; the boys who were haughty and built-up with pride for their bands were still the same guys. The only thing that changed, as far as my environment, was that I wasn’t the singer for ER. I was still sharing … I was still helping people … and I still do it today.

That’s awesome. I think it is great to hear that your identity comes through Christ and not through your band. I think that’s one of the places where a lot of early Christian bands … you know, when guys got in these Christian bands … that became their identity. And when that went away, their faith went away. I’ve heard a lot of that, but am glad that hasn’t been the case with you. Do you have any thoughts on the current Christian metal scene? Are you familiar with any of the newer Christian bands?
PS: I’m not. From what I’ve heard, they’re a lot more contemporary than where a lot of Christian music was back when I was playing it. There is a band that sounds like Slipknot; a band that sounds like Marilyn Manson … now, and not like 5 years after he has already peaked. The only thing that I’ve ever been worried about … I sound like the old guys who used to tell me, “Don’t get so worried about being competitive that you lose yourself in the image and forget what you are trying to accomplish.”

Bobby, do you ever listen to any Christian metal or Christian music?
BS: No, not really …to be honest, I didn't listen to it much back in the day. I always find myself listening to other styles of music other than what I play.

What band/musician inspires you today?
BS: The Living End, STP, Brian Setzer, The Beatles, Jet. That's what I have been listening to lately, but I still get out the old stuff-- GNR, Lynch Mob, etc.

Demon Hunter is very good; they have a lot of integrity. Their music and their art are very high quality. There is a newer metal band called Becoming the Archetype, which is more of a death metal/progressive metal band—they are excellent—and there are a few others as well, but I am far and away not an expert on it. I do try to keep up with it because it is part of our big brother magazine, HM. It is interesting to me how things have changed in that there is more originality, so to speak … the current bands are not as worried about matching a current popular style. When Christian metal started back in the mid 80’s you guys were up against … like you said, there was the current Hollywood scene … and to make it and have people hear you, you had to kind of match it to fit in a little bit. Nowadays, it seems the younger Christian artists—unless they want to make it on the radio—can get away with their own style right from the get-go.
PS: Yeah, well, the Christian bands nowadays have the freedom to be a vanguard, more of a pioneer. The dynamic of music is changing so rapidly that you can’t say, “We have to sign a Christian band that sounds like Mudvayne because Mudvayne has changed in the last two years.” And by the time you finish that album that sounds like the first Mudvayne album, even Mudvayne doesn’t sound like that anymore.

But you guys are to thank … for putting up with what you did. The younger guys have you to thank, I think, for the freedom they now have for musical expression.
PS: Well, that’s kind of neat to think. I appreciate that anyone would think that about us.

That’s one of the reasons why we are doing this. That’s one of the things that we are committed to in the Heaven’s Metal fanzine. I don’t know if you are familiar with it, but it’s a 24-page black and white publication.
PS: Like the old Heaven’s Metal?

Yeah. It’s very retro. One of the reasons that we cover the bands that we do is to pay tribute to guys. That, and fans—okay 40 and older—are generally interested in what happened to you guys. We know the contributions that you made and it’s really neat to hear the story of how you are doing these days. So, that’s really one of the main purposes for Heaven’s Metal fanzine. We do also cover newer bands that are more independent but are in the more traditional or older school metal style.

Well, here is a fun question. With bands like Stryper, Whitecross and Bloodgood reuniting, do you guys have any plans to “resurrect” Eternal Ryte?
BS: No plans as of yet, I guess we are gonna wait to see how this disc does, and see if we get any offers to tour or do festivals. I would love to go out and do some shows.

PS: You know, I think that we would really all enjoy doing the shows on demand. Our tastes are so different. We still have material that never got recorded for the second album. The second album was supposed to be called The Power and the Passion. It just never happened. I would completely enjoy finishing what we started. As far as reforming ER—being that the 4 of us are in 4 different states—I don’t know that we could actually do that as a viable full time thing. I would love doing it. I would have a lot of fun. We all grew up together and met between the age of 17 and 19. We would like to put our final stamp on what we felt we should have sounded like. So maybe, at some point in the future, we can do an EP or a full length of the stuff that we never got to finish and the stuff that we had in our heads that we never got to play for each other.

Yeah, I think that is an awesome idea. I think that is the one mistake that Stryper made when they reformed and created Reborn—which is kind of a lame album. They should have started with a re-recording of an older album to make it sound sonically modern but yet more raw, like it would sound being played live back in the day. I think what Whitecross did with 1987 was brilliant.
PS: I still wonder what we would have sounded like had we done World Requiem with John Petri (Goo Goo Dolls).

Well, listen, it has been great. It’s great to hear your perspectives and what’s going on in your lives and I appreciate your time. I know these things are not convenient so I appreciate it and I look forward to hearing Anthology.
PS: Yeah, so do I.

Thanks a lot, Phil. Bobby, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your time in doing this, not once, but twice!
BS: No problem. Make sure you save all of this!

©2007 HM Magazine - All Rights Reserved

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